Deciding on a new set up...

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:37 pm

Hi folks

My first post on here! From my involvment in other forums I hate nuff nuffs using msn/txt short hand slang crap who disregard punctuation and ask questions they should be shot for... so here's my go at a genuine request for help in finding a direction to start the mods on my stock subaru.

I'm stuck in the mud and can't decide on what to look for in modifying my suby... so I'm hoping for some suggestions to help me out. Here it goes!

My scuby is a...
'92 Liberty GX, 240,000km, manual, AWD, new dual range transmission and clutch (only 2.5k on them), and a K&N airfilter... so basically stock.

I am a...
21, male uni student with enough mechanical knowledge to do a basic service... I'm an avid outdoors man and do a lot of white water kayaking, climbing, mountain biking and bushwalking. I'm not into full on 4wding in the sense of 'going 4wding for the weekend', however my main hobbies send me into places with roads not meant for your average car.

Winter sees mud and snow (I don't go looking for it, but I always seem to find it) and wet dirt roads... summer sees loads of dusty dirt roads and sand.

I want my scuby to...
Get me where I need to go without smashing the undercarriage, front and rear ends, and not sliding off the road. My best mate has an older Mitsubishi Delica and I would like to get into the same places as him. Scubs still gets used around town and sees a lot of highway driving so no screaming mud tires. I don't want him to end up looking like a mud monster, just a subaru that sees more time in the bush than in the city, which is totally true.

Mods that I'm thinking about are...
2" or 3" body lift
new wheels and tires to increase total clearance
sump guard
full front bar for roos and scrub
rear bar

Questions I am lost on and would like guidance with...

1. What are people's experiences with 2" and 3" lifts? Especially if you've had both... what are the differences in handling from stock to the 2"? Stock to 3"? 2" to 3"?
2. How clear are the BYB installation guides for the lift kits? How hard is the installation itself? As I mentioned, I'm no genius mechanic but I'm not a dunce and can do the basics and learn quickly.. my next door neighbour is also an apprentice mechanic...
3. I have no idea whatsoever on what tires and wheels to get - any suggestions, given what I wrote above about what I want the vehicle to do? Will the 2" vs 3" raise give significant differences in options? I'm bewildered.
4. Front and rear bull bars - are these readily available at wreckers (I haven't seen them on many libs around town, mainly on older L series (will these fit?). Front is really for roos and scrub, the rear to keep the back end protected from melbourne drivers and people loading things onto the roof... Is there anyone, particularly in vic, who makes these new and suited to GXs since Hi-rise seems no more (or so i've read on these forums) and Scorpion's website says 'not available'?
5. Sump guards - can they be found commercially for libs? Scorpion only seem to do them for outbacks and foresters. Is it worth it? Anyone successfully DIY and have tips? I have some welding abilities but not that great... maybe this is my chance to improve

6. My pneumatic lift is still working fine, should I leave it in or take it out? Its reputation seems hit and miss as to its reliability, though I've had my scubs for close to 12months without issue...

I look forward to everyone's suggestions, advice and comments. When things start happening you can be assured there will be plenty of photos!

Cheers,
Owen

riksta · Post by **riksta** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:27 pm

Hi there to the forum, I have not had much to do with the 92 Libs, but if I were you for starters I would just do a spring lift witch should give you about 1" of lift, and get a lift kit later on (most go for the 2" lift, as I have in mine). springs are a lot less to fit then a full lift kit.

With wheels, I think you would have 15" on that car, I would keep them and just get a bigger tyre say like a 205/70/15, that will give you a bit more lift.

Bull Bars, you will find them hard to find, keep an eye out on E Bay, but there are meny looking them.

Sump Guards, if you wont a lite sump guard, have a look at the for sale on this forum,
It's made for a Forster, but I have one on my 99 Lib and it fits well just had to drill 2 new holes.

Hope this helps,

Rik.

Post by **Captain Obvious** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:59 pm

welcome owen,

in short you have a great car for your needs.

to start off i would fit a 2'' lift (thats leagal) then outback struts and springs fit some bigger rubber on, then i would get a set of 15'' liberty rims and run about a 26'' tyre, not to big but enough to give you some more lift but still have performance on the road. sump guards im pretty sure you can still buy genuine from subaru, i think the part number is on here somewhere as are the number for the struts and what not.

with that setup you would have a car the looks somthing like Vincentvega's and even my car here on the board.

hope this helps.

cheers
bryan

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:08 pm

Best value for money tyre is the Nankang 27x8.5/14. Your air bag struts will have to go if you want to fit these tyres or similar. Being an airbag vehicle and a GX I would guess you would have the 14" alloy wheels on it.

Seeing as though you would be replacing struts I suggest going for a set of Outback struts. You can get a good set of second hand ones for a few hundred dollars. If new is your choice, then you will pay around $800 or so for new struts and springs. You also have to get some top spring plates from a wrecker or some one on here. The Outback struts will give you 33mm lift in standard form. You can opt for inch raised springs as well but it is not necessary.

2" kit is legal as already said. It is an ideal set up for what you are wanting to do.

If money is an issue I would say to start with some second hand Outback struts and a set of 27" tyres. Then when you get a few more bucks fit the lift kit.

If the bug really gets to you there are bigger and better options for down the track. Like 15" wheels, bigger tyres again, limited slip diffs, bigger lift kit etc.

Keep an eye on eBay for a bullbar. They are quite expensive to buy them new. Quite a few members on here have picked up bars for around $200. Rear bar is a build yourself option only. The good thing with them is they are plastic standard and are quite forgiving.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:57 pm

Great first post dude. You've obviously spent some time on forums.

I had one of these wagons some years ago and loved it. I'm a big fan of the airbag struts, so I say keep 'em untill they're worn out. I used to get 100,000kms out of a full set with some pretty harsh conditions of mud, gravel and plenty of high speed driving.

I think you will have 14" steel rims and plastic hub caps and with the airbags you can still run 185/75, 185R or even 195R14 light truck tyres. You can still fit a lift kit with the airbag struts. As said, 2" is legal, but I'd go 3" otherwise you'll want to do it later anyway. Fitment is pretty straightforward. You're just unbolting bits, fitting a block and bolting them back on.

Bullbars , rear bars and sump guards are expensive things new but they do turn up from time to time on ebay and wreckers.

The only other thing I'd recommend at this stage is if you need more offroad traction from you're centre diff, you can install a heavier LSD. Yours will have a 4kg Viscous and probably worn out by now.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:33 am

Thanks everybody for your excellent suggestions! I've been away so only had the chance to check on here and stoked on so many suggestions!

I'm going to do it all at once so I only have to fork out for one lot of cash and one lot of arseing around in my garage!

Most posts seem to be suggesting an ideal set up would look like:

2" lift
outback struts and springs (1" lift)
15" rims
Bigger tyres, like say 205-225/70/15?

There seem to be a few comments about 2" kits being 'legal' - is that to say 3" is illegal - in some states only? Vicroads has a documentthat said:

"A vehicle may be lowered or raised provided the clearance between a suspension component and its associated bump stop is not altered by more than 1/3 of that specified by the manufacturer. In addition, the original relationship between the front and rear suspension heights must not be unduly affected... The vehicle must not be raised by the use of extended or adjustable shackle plates."

Sounds like mumbo jumbo to me. For those in the know, can I have a 3" kit with outback struts and still pass a roadworthy? As I said earlier, I hope to get this done in one go so I might as well get the max raise i can without being silly. Also, are there any other considerations regarding the suspension system with this new set up... stabiliser bars, trailing arms etc?

Regarding rims, a few have suggested liberty 15" - What years would i find these on at wreckers? any aftermarket rims that you would suggest?

Please keep the advice coming!

Cheers,
Owen.

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:30 am

Heres are some pics of my Liberty, the first pic is with a 2 inch kit, standard springs and 27inch tyres, then about 4 years later, The second pic is with the same 2 inch kit, outback struts with 30mm lift sprins and 28inch tyres.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:36 am

woah, big difference. Which springs did you get?

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:14 am

Pedders outback struts and pedders 30mm lift springs, am very happy with them, the ride is excellent.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:16 pm

Subaman wrote:Pedders outback struts and pedders 30mm lift springs.

A quote from pedders just now put it at 180/strut and 185/pair of strings, roughly $1000 for the lot - this seem close to what you paid?

Any issues with the spring lift in terms of drive shaft and cv joints?

Also, what years of outbacks should I be looking at?

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:39 pm

I paid reasonably less than that, but I got them for mates rates at the time, There are people on the board who may be able to supply you with some at a better price, (if you are near Brisbane then Camo "Liberty92" on the board may be able to help you out) also, give King Springs a call for a quote on a set of springs. The CV`s are fine with it, and you will want them from the first series of outbacks 94/95 i think it is.
Cheers
Grant

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:56 pm

96 - 98 boofnut.

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:57 pm

96 - 98 boofnut

Yeah what was I thinking, thats what I ment to say

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:56 pm

Since you're in Frankston, there is a sump gaurd in Gen 1 Liberty, i think its a white wagon in Jolly Rogers, Greens Road, Dandenong..

Install 2" lift, Outback Struts and king raised springs then you'll have a very good clearance - almost the same height as Subaman.

Since its EJ22 there isnt much mods you can do for the engine.. Just curious how come the gearbox was rebuilt? and if you don't want answer it (which i understand) how much did it cost ya?
Cheers
AP

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:58 pm

Thanks again everybody for your info and advice.

AP, always up to share a story! The gearbox felt a bit rough when I bought it in feb last year (odo @ 235,000km), and the clutch seemed ok, though not super. After about 6 months the smell of clutch was starting to become regular on both short and long trips, and after a particularly hard drive on some fun dirt roads I figured I should get it looked at. As I don't have the tools, know-how or an engine hoist to pull the tranny out and check the clutch plate and input shafts I figured I'd be at the mercy of a new mechanic, which I was a bit apprehensive about to be honest (hey we've all heard stories). Given the stench of melting clutch I was happy to pay for a new one, and as he had to pull the tranny out to get to it anyway I figured I'd save on labour and replace the whole lot at one time. The mechanic sent the old gearbox to get reco'd and they said it would've got about another 70,000km so I could have waited but with the amount of highway driving i do that'd only be about 6 months... figured I'd just hit myself up for the dosh just the one time. No idea where the invoice is, but off memory the rec'od dual range gearbox (not my old one) cost $1500, the clutch $1000 and about $500 for new timing belts and a check over the service work I'd done myself as scuby hadn't been serviced since I bought him.. so about $3k for all labour, gearbox, clutch, timing belts and tune up/check over... dunno if that was a good price, but the mechanic answered all my dumb noob questions without sniggering at me and has since proved to be a good bloke. What do you think, reasonable price? It was a few grand cheaper than Cambur Motors' quote... The mechanic was Luke Phillips from Bayside Automotive (specialises in subarus) in Frankston.

Subaman, how'd you go fitting those monster tires into the wheel wells?

Thanks again everyone!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:05 pm

Welcome to the forum and as Brumbyrunner said - Great first post!

I've heard that the L series sump guard fits the liberty - you can check this at any pick a part type wreckers, kinda handy for 'research' on what will fit and what won't (if it doesn't fit the way you want it, don't buy the part!).

What vic roads say is always open to interpretation. As for passing the road worthy, it depends on who's doing it. The police in the know will canary a vehicle for an oversized lift if its not engineered... That said, don't be frightened to go the 3 inch, there are plenty of subi's around with the 3 inch and have not been a cop magnet.

As for the air suspension - the real problems come into play when a bag or two start leaking and you don't replace them. This puts more strain on other components, namely the compressor that has to keep inflating them. This will shag out quicker resulting in the system failing completly. This happens to all air suspension units when not repaired at the appropriate time.

The EJ22 will serve you well, there's a member on the board who has supercharged his lib with a simple kit, its a bit expensive to me but most likely worth the money if you can justify it.

Hope to see you out and about sometime.

Cheers

Bennie

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:24 pm

quick question on tires for members from Vic - spoke to a few tire dealers around the place on the phone this arvo - most were quite hesitant to sell anything other than the original size of 185 because VicRoads say we're supposed to stay within the 30% limit of manufacturer's recommendations, otherwise the vehicle wouldn't pass a road worthy.... thoughts? Is this only if you're on the original 14" rim or what?

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:31 pm

walk in there with your rims and have them fit whatever tyre you want.

plenty of dealers in QLD are the same about this sort of thing. everyone is scared of liability. I have found that if they dont have to bolt them to the car then they care a whole lot less

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:44 pm

i had the same problem about two years ago, i have 205/70 15" on my Liberty, went several tyre places, most refused to supply, and the one in Maidstone refused but had good deal that i couldn't walk away, and i said, i'm a paying customer, i want you supply and fit them otherwise you'll loose business with me, my car is converted to outback specification with speedo corrector installed then i walked out he changed his mind then did it for me.
Cheers
AP

tex · Post by **tex** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:50 pm

As has been stated Ideally I would leave the airbags suspension in until it gives you grief and will still work with a lift kit, I have Forrester wheels on mine although these don't fit all four wheels well enough with out a little lift but If you just want traction in the rough check your LSD and maybe upgrade it and get some mud or snow tyres. As for the sump guard if the L one does work there is a post on here about toughening it up a bit! But these are possibly the cheapest options to get you started...