The EA82T HATE wall

[steptoe]

Nice lookn beast you have there. Good story too. DISCO ! see the TB cable position!

[El_Freddo]

I currently don't have time to read all the posts but hope to soon. I will say that it initially sounds like someone wanted to create a storm on an internet forum.

From my experience I went from EA82 carb to EA82 MPFI - this taught me a lot about EFI systems. Then I went back to EA82 carb, and not a good one either, then the EJ22.

Most on this forum go from the NA EA to the NA EJ. Basically we're comparing two different things here an older turbo to a newer NA...

As for peak torque etc, From the figures I've seen the EJ has more, this can mean that the NA EJ's torque could be close to that of the EA82T's peak at that given rev.

My choice for the EJ upgrade? Reason being there's no turbo, but still provided (or expected to) enough of a power and torque increase to make me I was going from a crappy EA82 carbie.

I also think that the reaction to most people saying just go EJ is a bit of a knee jerk reaction - its just advice saying that you'll make easier power and torque from an EJ than an EA. With that I agree.

Feel free to pick that apart for me to reply (yes I'm a little frustrated about this thread - SAME TEAM! SAME TEAM!).

Cheers

Bennie

[AndrewT]

I don't actually have direct personal experience with these motors, although had a fair bit of exposure with SubaFury's when he used to run one I suppose. Personal experience isn't required to form an opinion of them though. People have pretty strong opinions on Ladas without having owned one too! The only car I've had which had an EA82turbo in it came to me without the motor as it had recently blown up. I just don't bother with them because I know I can get a more reliable, newer engine with similar power in an EJ (usually without even having to use forced induction). It just seems illogical to bother with the EA82t these days. If I had a car that already had an EA82turbo motor in good running condition and I was happy to stick with n/a-style power then I'd mostly likely keep using it. Nothing against them really but I just know they've had their day and there are better options available for similar money.
Subaru's get better and so do their engines it's called development If you have an old Subaru and you want it to go better, put a later/different model engine in! If you insist on keeping an old generation car, conversions are where it's at! I seriously doubt anyone who's done an EJ upgrade has been disappointed.

Naturally it's only my opinion, and yes ElFreddo makes are very good point, we're all on the same side!

[phillatdarwin]

i am thinking very hard about getting rid of the 2 ea82t that i have .
And the 2 of them are running that i have and still going to a ej turbo as i would like a bit more go in my RX .
and every one that has one says that it is the way to go.
and parts for a ej seem the be cheaper .
that is just what i am thinking .

[discopotato03]

If I had my time over it may have been an EJ but then again maybe not an L Series . I didn't really know the costs involved in rebuilding the EA having not had any flat four experience in the past . I'm not so sure rebuilding an EJ would be any cheaper other than some new parts wouldn't have to have been genuine ex Japan - no local stock on hand .

With an L Series it goes beyond the engine really to the trans/suspension/brakes etc . To build a mini Lib meaning EJ/EJ trans/EJ front struts/brakes/5 stud conversion etc is reasonably serious money on a L Series . If we'd had the luxury of XT6 hardware here in Australia it would have been easy and reasonably affordable - but we didn't .
Better Factory radiators would have been a good addition for Australian conditions too .

I think the real truth is that most people won't spend the money it takes to rebuild an EA82 and go on with better manifolds turbo etc . To get anywhere near an EJ is impossible IMO with a worn std spec EA82T . The thing they had when new was a few billion less heating/cooling cycles and all the hoses/seals/rings/bearings/turbo etc were tight sealing and new . An original 20 something yr old EA is going to be a bit sad which is very understandable . The first of the EJ's is at about that stage now but they are easily replaced by a cheapish import or later virtually drop in engine . Where do you buy a cheap low k EA82/T ?

I don't think very many people get to experience a fresh EA82T with mods - and all its dogs barking - which mine isn't yet . AFAIK I've done the rights things , yes oil cooler and intercooler needed , but engine management and a few gremlins are letting me down ATM .
As you know the next black box is on hand and short of sorting better injectors and a wire/tune job I think it should be lots better .

Spiders , yep unlike the L MPFI manifold the spider and TB have a square bolt pattern so they bolt together any way you like .
Also take a real close look at the one in the pic above , the spiders steel tube system is a REAL nightmare , they make their two solenoids and the fuel reg real hard to get at - the ECU temp probe is a real bastard . God help you if you damage the plasticky breather pipe that lives underneath the probe .
The other prob is that to do much will el spider you need to gut the thing in 3 layers and buy new gaskets for them . At least Vorts' had them here .

On occasions when Ellie runs well I get the impression that it could go a lot better but everything is a one off conversion on this car so its difficult and expensive - let alone inconvenient .

I have driven Ladas , would rather drive my L onroad and a Lada off road . Do most of my miles on steel rails these days .

If I ever have another Sube it would be the whatever series Lib with the first 2.5 EJ's . Maybe the RS version who knows . Prefer an early Evo .

A .

[steptoe]

AndrewT !! Was Subafurys EA82T a blue spider with gold rocker covers by any chance?

[AndrewT]

AndrewT !! Was Subafurys EA82T a blue spider with gold rocker covers by any chance?

Don't think it had a spider manifold. Pretty sure he did paint quite a few things on it blue including the rocker covers, not gold I don't think.

[El_Freddo]

It was said to me years ago that factory engineering is hard to beat , on price , and I hope this is my last lesson into 1980's cars .

And that is the reason why I went the EJ for my setup. Power/torque upgrade for my L while using "factory engineering"...

IMO the EA82 is a technology starved cheapish update of the EA81 , it should have had heads designed around being SOHC like the early EJ ones .
I dunno , Subaru must have had their reasons .

I agree with this - the EA82's head design seems to have been done on the cheap and in a rush. The cam box is one of the reasons why I'm over working on the EA82 as I now see it as a big oversight in the design process.

people keep buying them [L series] cheaply - initially anyway . Thats the catch with L's , you generally buy them inexpensively and the game starts afterwards .

Agreed. My L was a $500 special with 293xxx km on the clock - and a shot motor as we found out after the purchase. This is where it all began...

Cheers

Bennie

[steptoe]

Today I took the old GLTA ( I guess I should change that now its a manual) scratch that, the GLTM out for a rip along some highway, some country lanes and some narrow steep winding dirt roads. Never driven this on this trip before so comparing it to the EA81 twin carb 16/56 cam Brumby on LPG. The old EA82T did well up and along uphill runs where the old Brumby used to flag out a bit at 110kph (coz it preferred 135 actually ), definitely quieter and smooth run in the L Series suspension. So it really has the legs to keep things rolling nicely at or a little above the speed limits IMPOSED. It is what I was hoping to achieve when I set out mucking around with the EA82T, so may just get one into the Brumby afterall.

EJ's were 80's technology too Adrian

[discopotato03]

Yes 80's but late 80's not an over evolved funding starved EA70 something .
Really the sorts of cars that manufacturers were putting into production at the end of the 80's was a quantum leap over earlier things .
To me it looks like the EA82 was a late life crisis for the EA81 , pushrods were no longer fashionable and over head cams must have been the bling thing . Those cam boxes make the 82 so wide and early EJ style ones would not have been so hard to productionise .

Most of the manufacturers were extending the lives of their old lumps at that stage with power steer pumps , AC pumps , EFI , maybe a turbo . Always nicer to put together a package that has all these things integrated from the start which I reckon the EJ was .

Who knows , maybe Fuji was saving development dollars for later things - like a flat four with more than three main bearings .

Anyway why doesn't matter , they is what they is .

Cheers A .

[Subaman]

And that is the reason why I went the EJ for my setup. Power/torque upgrade for my L while using "factory engineering"...

There is no realistic power/torque upgrade going from an EA82T to an EJ22.

I agree with this - the EA82's head design seems to have been done on the cheap and in a rush. The cam box is one of the reasons why I'm over working on the EA82 as I now see it as a big oversight in the design process.

....and maybe Henry Ford should have just skipped all the crap and gone straight for a twin overhead cammed 16v fuel injected model T......what was he thinking....... its called development guys, the EJ wouldnt be what it is today without the EA motors!

[Gannon]

Who knows , maybe Fuji was saving development dollars for later things - like a flat four with more than three main bearings .

I think Adrian may be onto something there, here is a pic of a EA81 with dual cam heads.



Its still a EA81 shortblock, but it has hand machined heads, a spider type throttle body with fuel injection and an interesting, equal length exhaust header setup

Id love to know the story behind this picture

[AndrewT]

There is no realistic power/torque upgrade going from an EA82T to an EJ22.

not on paper no, but in practice it's still a worthwhile upgrade. The car feels more powerful overall and drives better overall. Ask the dude who only just completed the conversion to the RX sedan and took it to the beach. Current real world example right there!

[steptoe]

That dude is Checkers. I suppose comapring an EJ in its own body, with its own gearbox and brakes is not the best way to assess how same will go in a lighter MY or L series either. Maybe it is the delivery of power and torque from the EJ that is more noticeable than the actual figures, especially in the lighter bodies

[steptoe]

The story behind that picture ???

Looks not like Subaru development environment, more like an aircraft setup using twin cam Fiat heads - the front half of two. Don't think the Alfa boxer ever did twin cam. Maybe the engine builder is still chuckling away with Subie nuts around the world salivating at his build up that will never run - just clearing some crap outta the shed along with a few mates and tinnies

[Subaman]

That dude is Checkers. I suppose comapring an EJ in its own body, with its own gearbox and brakes is not the best way to assess how same will go in a lighter MY or L series either. Maybe it is the delivery of power and torque from the EJ that is more noticeable than the actual figures, especially in the lighter bodies

I have driven EJ22 powered Brumbies and EJ22 powered L Series, thats why I never changed my RX to an EJ22. Probably the same reason Brett never did either, or Suby Wan Kenobi who still has his EA82T powered RX, Brett fitted an EJ20T to his brumby, now that conversion is worthwhile.

[Outback bloke]

If you are considering taking your EA82T out of your car to fit an EJ22 then there must be something wrong with your ea or you have rocks in your head. There is no performance gain to be had from fitting an EJ22 when compared to a well working EA. The other way around infact.

There isn't many combinations of conversions I haven't done and I know spending money to do that conversion is a waste when based on perfomance only. Fitting an EJ turbo, sure, that is a massive upgrade. The EJ22 is more economical than the 82t when fitted to the same car. This is a good reason to swap motors but not good enough in my opinion.

EA82 NA motors should all be removed and melted down to make pistons or some thing for EJ's. Fitting a slowly dying EJ22 to an NA EA powered car is a viable option.

Having said all that if I had an MY I was building and was looking for an engine then the EJ wins hands down. No chassis mods, good power and economy.

L series would end up EJ purely because finding a good EA82T front cut these days is impossible. If they were still available then it would probably be the turbo motor that ended up in there. With a few slight mods the EA82T will smoke an EJ22 in all aspects.

[phillatdarwin]

sounds good to hear all of this so it is that a ea82t will smoke a ej22na
But how much gane can u get from a ej22turbo ?If u go this way

[Outback bloke]

There is no comparison between and EJ turbo and an EA turbo. The EJ is a much better motor all round, parts are readily available, they have far better heads, more bearings and a wider range of factory parts.

I should add to the above post of mine that a current EJ25 would be a good upgrade to your EA82T. They have more power and torque than the EJ22. All of which I am talking about is in stock trim/ecu.

[nncoolg]

I dont know why someone hasn't developed some heads for the EA82. With a better head design and a single timing belt they would be such a nice motor.