ej25 bearing question

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Enchanter
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ej25 bearing question

Post by Enchanter » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:21 am

A forum search has revealed nothing so...

I have done a bigend bearing in my daily driver 2004 Liberty, now I have to fix it.
I have never worked on a Subaru before but have rebuilt a few other cars & engines.
Is there anything unusual to lookout for, any tips. Can I access the bearings from underneath without removing the engine entirely ? (unlikely I know).

I should probably fix the problem that caused this in the first place, the rings.
Would a short block be a better option, can I even get one ?

Cheers, Tim :)

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Post by drof351 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:51 am

Gday you've gotta split the block to do big ends and mains. Pistons removed from blanking plates front and back to get to the gudgeon pins. Have a look on you tube theres some videos of people pulling them apart.

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Post by RSR 555 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:25 pm

Yeah Tim.. Tough question the old rebuild or buy a short block :???:

I would call around the local importers and see what sort of prices they are offering, then call some machining shops and get prices for crank grinding, honing and resizing rods. Then call you parts place and prices for all the rings, bearings and gaskets. This should give you a good idea of what you'll be up for.

As for little tips in getting the engine out and apart.. well there is heaps so I'd recommend you grab yourself a copy of a Subaru Work Shop Manual that suits your model. I know someone on this site that loves finding electronic copies WSMs ( Hi Toonga :D ).
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Post by drof351 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:15 pm

I've just replaced an engine in the 2004 liberty. The owner paid 3500 for a 2004 GT engine with 20000k's on it. And ive just rebuilt a 2001 wrx engine with forged pistons etc and it cost about the same in parts and machining.

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Post by Enchanter » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:49 pm

And there I was hoping for an easy fix, drop the sump and change the bigends sort deal lol

Im assuming splitting th block means a full rebuild then, heads off, machining etc

Is the H6 a common swap for these cars ? I do like the idea of a revvy 6cyl. Appart from tacho and exhaust and radiator (?) would there be any mismatches.

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Post by drof351 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:52 pm

You could possibly buy a rebuild kit(about $700 genuine) pull it apart and just replace the broken bits. You might just get away with replacing the bearings?

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Post by RSR 555 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:27 pm

Enchanter wrote:And there I was hoping for an easy fix, drop the sump and change the bigends sort deal lol

Im assuming splitting th block means a full rebuild then, heads off, machining etc

Is the H6 a common swap for these cars ? I do like the idea of a revvy 6cyl. Appart from tacho and exhaust and radiator (?) would there be any mismatches.
hahahaha.. yeah.. just a quick change out ;) would have made my job a lot easier :)

H6 :mrgreen: love them engines and because your model/year was available as a 6 in the Outback (and 3.0R I think) then it's pretty much a straight (haha lots of labour) swap over if you can find a 1/2 cut from Japan. That way you have everything you need i.e. dash, exhaust, power steering stuff, etc...
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Post by Enchanter » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:58 pm

There is a good chance I will just rebuild but Iam searching for front cuts through the normal google search jap importers now :)
Anyone know of any H6 front cuts about the place ?

Will the H6 bolt up to my flywheel, 5 spd etc ? I dont want to go auto.

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Post by mattl200 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:42 pm

you will have to swap the engine and dash looms to go h6

the imobliser modules

and id tags inside the keys
or change the whole ignition and locks
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Post by RSR 555 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:44 am

Enchanter wrote:There is a good chance I will just rebuild but Iam searching for front cuts through the normal google search jap importers now :)
Anyone know of any H6 front cuts about the place ?

Will the H6 bolt up to my flywheel, 5 spd etc ? I dont want to go auto.
The only place over here that may have one is Japanese Wholesale. Check their website but if you see nothing on there just email them as they have containers come in all the time and only update the website every now and then.

As for your flywheel fitting I'm not 100% sure but there isn't to much a good machinist couldn't solve. I'd have a search on the web, as 'm sure there is a few guys that would have done this conversion.

Your engine is still fairly new so I'm convident that you may be able to get away with just a crank grind, bearings and a gasket kit (this is if this is where the problem is) to keep cost down.
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:41 pm

Speak to Al at AM auto in regards to the H6- they're a sponsor of the site, located in Qld, but should be good for some info. I've recently seen some of his work, its very neat!

As for the EJ25, from what I understand (having not pulled the EJ engine apart) you should be able to split the block without taking out the pistons/heads if you don't want to.

Cheers

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Post by RSR 555 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:42 pm

El_Freddo wrote:As for the EJ25, from what I understand (having not pulled the EJ engine apart) you should be able to split the block without taking out the pistons/heads if you don't want to.

Cheers

Bennie
Sorry Bennie but not true :( there are bolts that are inside the water jackets, that hold the block together. No worries ;) I have seen one person replace the big end bearings without splitting the block but it looked as dodgie as :???:
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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:14 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Sorry Bennie but not true :( there are bolts that are inside the water jackets, that hold the block together.
Ah yeah... I forgot about those little suckers. Shows how long its been since I've split a block. Might have to think up a new project :twisted:

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Post by maxxair » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:53 pm

"I have seen one person replace the big end bearings without splitting the block"

I would love to know how. (not coz im dodgy or anything, just it may come in handy.lol)
Cheers, Rohan M.

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Post by tex » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:58 pm

maxxair wrote:"I have seen one person replace the big end bearings without splitting the block"

I would love to know how. (not coz im dodgy or anything, just it may come in handy.lol)
Just the seal would be easy but the big end bearing would be a challenge. unless it was the spigot bearing they were changing.

By the way if your going the H6 conversion Tons of labour involved I would imagine it could possibly involve changing the wiring loom behind the dash.
But if you have a manual I'd get a manual H6 to save having to cut out the transmission computer plus if you get something the same age hopefully it will all plug in and bolt up whats more you might get some good bits and sell off the rest!
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Post by RSR 555 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:16 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Ah yeah... I forgot about those little suckers. Shows how long its been since I've split a block. Might have to think up a new project :twisted:

Cheers

Bennie
Sounds like it mate.. How about a EJ25 Turbo from a 03 Foz? I got offered a whole car today for $7,000 complete but damaged (rolled) and was trying to think of what I should build??
maxxair wrote:"I have seen one person replace the big end bearings without splitting the block"

I would love to know how. (not coz im dodgy or anything, just it may come in handy.lol)
I'll need to explain with a picture but you'd remove the sump and slash tray then you can see all the Big End Bearings, not the mains as you need to split the block for them.
tex wrote:Just the seal would be easy but the big end bearing would be a challenge. unless it was the spigot bearing they were changing.

By the way if your going the H6 conversion Tons of labour involved I would imagine it could possibly involve changing the wiring loom behind the dash.
But if you have a manual I'd get a manual H6 to save having to cut out the transmission computer plus if you get something the same age hopefully it will all plug in and bolt up whats more you might get some good bits and sell off the rest!
Not sure Tex what you mean the seal or spigot bearing as this is outside the engine and sandwiched between the block and gearbox? maybe you're not thinking of the same things??

As for the H6 I'd use just the ECU harness (cut down and modified) and drop it over the existing loom so everything else runs as normal and the H6 runs as a stand alone unit. I wish I had the time as this would be an awesome conversion.
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Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:34 am

The engine is now out and appart. I can see how 3 of the bigend bearings could be done without splitting the block, it would be fiddly but doable, however bigend number 1 is under a major oil passage and not accessable. It just happened that only #1 was dead.... so the block is split.

The oil rings, obviously the cause of the initial problems are useless, flush with the piston and full of crap so they were doing nothing at all. Compression rings were fine.

One question I now have is regarding the stretch bolts for the head, block (mains), bigends and the flywheel. I cant find the stretch specs for these so I dont know if I can use them again or not ?? Anyone know if there should still be life in them ?

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Post by Enchanter » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:41 am

Oh one more interesting discovery, the clutch fork is badly cracked around the pivoting point !!
I would say there is very little life left in it. Is this a known or common problem ?
I will weld it up so its an easy fix, lucky find or unlucky to happen in the first place.... I will go with luck find :)

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Post by RSR 555 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:59 am

Enchanter wrote:The engine is now out and appart. I can see how 3 of the bigend bearings could be done without splitting the block, it would be fiddly but doable, however bigend number 1 is under a major oil passage and not accessable. It just happened that only #1 was dead.... so the block is split.

The oil rings, obviously the cause of the initial problems are useless, flush with the piston and full of crap so they were doing nothing at all. Compression rings were fine.

One question I now have is regarding the stretch bolts for the head, block (mains), bigends and the flywheel. I cant find the stretch specs for these so I dont know if I can use them again or not ?? Anyone know if there should still be life in them ?
Yes they all can be used again. Only the Head Bolts are stretch bolts and are recomended to be changed. If they look in good condition and the engine hasn't overheated then I use them without any issues.
Enchanter wrote:Oh one more interesting discovery, the clutch fork is badly cracked around the pivoting point !!
I would say there is very little life left in it. Is this a known or common problem ?
I will weld it up so its an easy fix, lucky find or unlucky to happen in the first place.... I will go with luck find :)
Yes it is common but there usually is an issue with the clutch to cause this. I'd recommend you have the pressure plate tested and repaired if required. Also found that welding a small piece if flat bar across the top of the 'hump' will give it some better support and lots of anti-seize the pivot point before reassembling will reduce it cracking again.
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Post by Enchanter » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:32 pm

Ok, now I have the parts but the rings dont fit. Its only the oil rings, they are to thick. Hastings are the suppliers, Im told on good authority they also supply Subaru directly and that there are no other litings for the ej25.

Could the oil ring problems with these engines be because the oil grooves are so thin (2mm on the piston vs 2.5mm rings ) and the pistons simply need to be machined to take fatter oil rings ?.

Just stabbing in the dark, any thoughts ?

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