2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:14 pm

I feel all your pain guys!
But I'm very thankful i've managed to get out of my situation. I had spoken to Subaru Australia, the service center and they both informed me it was my driving habits that cause quicker oil dilution. So I took it up with my dealer over the fact I did not feel they had properly informed me that the diesel would not suit my driving habits, when I had made them clear.

Thankfully there was a new sales manager at my dealership and he wanted to work hard at getting me out the door confident about Subaru, and with me feeling happy.
For me that meant getting out of the diesel, as I was sure it was only going to lead to future problems.
SO out of the diesel I have gone, and into a brand new 2011 XT which will be arriving off the boat in a couple of days time.

Had to fork out of course for the upgrade and lost about $1-1.5k in the exchange, but to me its money well spent as now I'm assured peace of mind with no car problems. I just cant stand the thought of guinea pigging anymore for Subaru on this one. Its just not what you expect when you buy a brand new car!

So I wish you guys all the best of luck with your problems, give Subaru hell!

Tiern09 · Post by **Tiern09** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Thanks 'Ricker' for the update. Yep, my wife and I have almost reached the point of returning the vehicle to Subaru and simply demanding a full refund. New vehicles should not behave in this manner - not good enough. Since my last post to this forum I have spoken with Subaru Australia and high level technicians - they can't explain what is causing this problem and a solution seems to be nowhere in sight! My wife and I have been very patient and accomodating during this whole saga but my patience is wearing thin.

nicko · Post by **nicko** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Hi guys

Just wondering if there is a link to vehicle build dates? I don't have the shudder thankfully. Mine does the occasional 2 'coughs' at 100kph which I assume is the DPF regen. Mine would be a 06/10 build model from memory.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Interesting how I hear different things from Subaru to the rest of you...

.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:55 pm

I mentioned the other day an article I found comparing the Euro4 Boxer Diesel with the Euro5. Since there doesn't seem to be anyone in europe with a euro4 complaining of the shudder, it leads me to believe it has something to do with the mods to the second generation boxer diesel.

I find the NVH section ironic considering the discussion thread we are in.

http://www.enginetechnologyinternationa ... s/Fuji.pdf

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:00 pm

I took the car in today to have the suspect ERG valve looked into. they had to remove the Intercooler to get to it and basically gave it a clean and relearn the ERG with the ECU. That was summary of thier notes and all done under waranty. the car was in the shop most of the day.

Now that I drive it, it seems I need to rev it more and I don't feel the turbo kick as much. I'll keep you posted if shudder occurs, but definetley it feels alot different, less power and I need to rev more to get it going

I'll keep sending emails to Subaru and taking the car back as long as I can stand it, afterall they will maybe get sick of me and suggest a way around the issue.

I think all that have this or these smilar issues should write to subaru, take your cars down to Service centers and make them aware. the more we have awareness the more FHI will do something about it. Afterall it will affect car sales and the resell price if we don't come to a conclusion soon!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:19 pm

MY11OBD wrote:I took the car in today to have the suspect ERG valve looked into. they had to remove the Intercooler to get to it and basically gave it a clean and relearn the ERG with the ECU. That was summary of thier notes and all done under waranty. the car was in the shop most of the day.

Now that I drive it, it seems I need to rev it more and I don't feel the turbo kick as much. I'll keep you posted if shudder occurs, but definetley it feels alot different, less power and I need to rev more to get it going

I'll keep sending emails to Subaru and taking the car back as long as I can stand it, afterall they will maybe get sick of me and suggest a way around the issue.

I think all that have this or these smilar issues should write to subaru, take your cars down to Service centers and make them aware. the more we have awareness the more FHI will do something about it. Afterall it will affect car sales and the resell price if we don't come to a conclusion soon!

So, by the sound of it, they reflashed the ECU after the EGR cleanup.

A software update has changed the characteristics of the engine.

Give them a ring soon with your feedback of drivability.

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:51 pm

Littlewhiteute are you afiliated with Subaru service dept? I will update the service center and this thread of my cars shudder experience moving forward.

Nicko my build date is 09/10, My brother in law got the car 1 month after me and he does not have shudder issues? I will check his build date this weekend.

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:10 pm

The change in driving characteristics is cause they reflected the ecu. The ecu will take a little while to relearn the way you drive. I'm pretty sure ecu's are adaptive to their drivers. So if u continue to drive hard in it. It should eventually start giving you more.

subdiesel · Post by **subdiesel** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:40 pm

steptoe wrote:Does the DPF burn off process continue when the gears are swapped back to get higher revs?

Sounds like the driver needs a warning that DPF burn off is about to occur in one minute so no go do any overtaking, or be programmed not to conduct a burn off unless revs are at constant 3,000 rpm and driver gives the go ahead with a button press

IMHO it's not that bad. Most drivers won't notice a difference when active regen is happening - as long as high power isn't needed (e.g. quick overtaking maneuver). In regen mode and low torque/power demand, manifold air pressure is unusually low (can even be a lot lower than atmospheric) because of turbo vanes set wide open resulting in low turbo speed. Accelerating slowly is fine - ECU adjusts parameters accordingly, getting needed MAP and torque. However, additional lag is noticable when you step on it. MAP buildup takes more time as it had been way below normal (e.g. 90 kPa -> 250 instead of 130 -> 250 kPa, starting off 100 kph, 5th gear, atmospheric roughly 100 kPa).
I often need data display or current fuel consumption on center display in order to notice active regen occurring. That short little coughs at regen on/off switch points can be missed.
AFAIK Euro4 regen only stops at engine off. Engine speed does not seem to matter, also continues at idle, never seen an abort. Maybe post-injection is being suspended shortly on high power demand like A/C compressor, not enough data to be sure...
Overall I can live with the DPF, can get down to 6.0 L/100km if I want to. Would be lower for sure not having closed DPF. Unlike Forester/Legacy/Outback? there was no Impreza diesel equipped with open DPF.
Only real shudder/vibration I get is when belt got wet/slippery during car wash, idling afterwards, little revs help, problem gone after a minute max.
Generally, a helpful mechanic would do a trip data log, analyze behavior and talk about it. Did they had to sign non-disclosure agreements?

littlewhiteute wrote:So, by the sound of it, they reflashed the ECU after the EGR cleanup.

Yeah, sounds like it. New software resulting in slightly reduced power, not telling customer ... quite common solution.

subdiesel · Post by **subdiesel** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:22 am

To be fair, mechanics cannot adjust ECU software itself at all, not their business. They only reflash a fixed newer version. Subaru reflash software even refuses putting up any older or same version than what's on the car - can't go back if you don't like it.

Ricker wrote:The change in driving characteristics is cause they reflected the ecu. The ecu will take a little while to relearn the way you drive. I'm pretty sure ecu's are adaptive to their drivers. So if u continue to drive hard in it. It should eventually start giving you more.

Not much related to driving characteristics on diesels if at all, I think. AFAIK such learning parameters apply more to petrol + automatic transmissions. EGR valve hast just a position sensor to be calibrated. Also EGR's not involved at high power demand, valve closed anyway.

drwormy · Post by **drwormy** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:44 pm

Ricker wrote: Had to fork out of course for the upgrade and lost about $1-1.5k in the exchange

Sounds like you did really well out of it. Well done.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:14 pm

MY11OBD wrote:Littlewhiteute are you afiliated with Subaru service dept? I will update the service center and this thread of my cars shudder experience moving forward.

Sorry, I don't work for Subaru, although I own a Brumby and a WRX.

I work for Holden as a Foreman/Senior Tech.

None of Holdens' Diesels has this condition.

Mess · Post by **Mess** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:18 pm

littlewhiteute wrote:Sorry, I don't work for Subaru, although I own a Brumby and a WRX.

I work for Holden as a Foreman/Senior Tech.

None of Isuzu's or Daewoo's Diesels has this condition.

Fixed it for you.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:23 pm

Mess wrote:Fixed it for you.

Fixed it? The cars' badges are Holden, I know who makes the engines, we'll leave it at that.

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:42 pm

I drove the car first time today home from the freeway after the EGR valve works, no issues so far but will post more as it happend at least once a day going home. the journy to work in start stop and freeway driving does not seem to cause my shudders.

Ricker · Post by **Ricker** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:09 pm

drwormy wrote:Sounds like you did really well out of it. Well done.

I feel so! Check out the new instrument panel in the 2011 xt. Looks pretty sweet

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:52 am

Whilst doing some searching on the internet stumbled upon this site http://subdiesel.wordpress.com/ has anyone had any experience with this type of data logger, know where they can be purchased etc? It seems there is quite good info that these guys are doing and maybe able to help the shudder issue.

Mess · Post by **Mess** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:32 pm

I was planning to get an OBDII bluetooth unit and use an app I can purchase on the Android marketplace for my phone to log data.

I've got a 2010 diesel Forester. does this mean it won't work?

Also, where is the OBD port on the diesel Forester?

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:02 pm

MY11OBD wrote:Now that I drive it, it seems I need to rev it more and I don't feel the turbo kick as much. I'll keep you posted if shudder occurs, but definetley it feels alot different, less power and I need to rev more to get it going

The conundrum...would we rather less torque and no shudder or lots of torque and the occasional shudder....a difficult choice indeed.

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2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

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