The Death Rattle for Little Red :(

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:42 pm

1997 Subaru Impreza Sportswagon.
Sad news fellas. A short time ago, perhaps on the forums, I asked about a weird engine rattle at around 3150-3250rpm.

Internet searches indicated it was possibly the exhaust heat shields resonating. No worries, got them cut off. 90% of the noise went away, and I felt it was simply the remaining bits on the y-pipe.

Not so. Tonight I took it around to a mechanic to give me a hand cleaning out the rear drums, and he also had a look/listen at the rest of it. Revved it...noise was there, and bad. Took it for a spin, only happens when not under load.

Took it back to the garage, He fiddled around unplugging and plugging injectors in/out. The two at the front made the most difference (sounded less rattle/no rattle when not plugged in) and we eventually worked out Cylinder no.1 big end bearing, piston skirt or gudgeon pin is the culprit.

Sigh. Looks like it's curtains.
Bought it at 152XXX. Now 168000.
How much longer will I get? I really need to get what I can for it now, I feel. Thoughts? Anyone keen for a 1007 Subaru Impreza Sportswagon? With Roof racks, spare set of alloys with roadworthy tread, has A/C.
Sigh Sigh.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:47 pm

Sounds terminal

EAs can rattle about for sometime, but EJs...not so much.

Upside is that it is a cheap fix - secondhand motor is the go.

A 97 Imprezza with a blown motor is worth $1.-2K tops.

Sorry for your bad news too

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:09 pm

If I could fit a second hand motor myself, I'd do it no worries. Unfortunately that's not an option. I'm capable but without equipment/time. I had been looking for something a bit nicer on the highway anyway, comfort wise-cabin noise, e.t.c.

1-2k is all I'm after to be honest. Has 11 months rego!

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:16 pm

Bradenrm wrote:If I could fit a second hand motor myself, I'd do it no worries. Unfortunately that's not an option. I'm capable but without equipment/time. I had been looking for something a bit nicer on the highway anyway, comfort wise-cabin noise, e.t.c.

1-2k is all I'm after to be honest. Has 11 months rego!

Bugger mate, that really sucks!!
My foz engine is stuffed. Has a $3000 new reconditioned gearbox in it though

I will be replacing the engine myself although I have never done one.

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:16 am

Bradenrm wrote:. Revved it...noise was there, and bad. Took it for a spin, only happens when not under load.

Bought it at 152XXX. Now 168000.
.

Don't believe it is big ends.

bearings will rattle worst on start up.

nore do I believe it is piston skirts or gudgeon pin/ little end.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:15 am

I don't suppose it is EJ16 being a sportswagon ???. I have one have just pulled manifold off and exposed inlets to a little rain and weather

Don't know its history either, so it is off to scrap very soon - so gives an idea of its worth. I bought an EA82T with a 'declared' odd noise that turned out to be I think - a little end bush on off boost? a backing off no load. Still got 20,000 km on it with no change in noise before I pulled it out and put my beter EA82T back in .....

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:46 pm

revmax wrote:Don't believe it is big ends.

bearings will rattle worst on start up.

nore do I believe it is piston skirts or gudgeon pin/ little end.

Interesting, what do you reckon it is?
There's really nothing on startup..well, three small rattles which go away but doesn't sound like much? Only when dead cold, but it was low on oil then too..

I've done an oil change tonight..I'll check in tomorrow and let you know if it's still there in any capacity.

Steptoe it's an ej20.

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:23 am

I sent you post to my Dad.( retired old school mechanic)

He sugested
Auto or manual ?
-If manual could it be worn/out of ballance clutch creating a resonance.

It could very well still be something loose in the exhaust, My Brumby exhaust rattles bad ad certan revs only when not under load between gear changes.

"three small rattles which go away but doesn't sound like much? Only when dead cold, but it was low on oil then too.."
That could be a sign of worn bearings

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:31 am

Well, the 16 continues on its wait for a scrap trip. I can only say my noise had a very similar characteristic, and thought to be littl end bearing, well bushing anyway, as not stripped yet to find it. Went well otherwise, although a little cautious that it might suddenly let go. Previous owner of engine was fearless and took it on trips of 1600 km , maybe more with this tick.

Can you drive with very suddenly on load off load with the accelerator and have it come and go as instantly as the change ? I could, and odd that under load it was best, so more likely to come unstuck off load ?? And don't forget mine was pushing out turbo power !!

If you don't go too far out away from home and a towing budget distance and want - may come back in here years to come to report just how much further/longer the thing has gone

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:56 pm

Well guys, I traded it in. I ended up feeding it some 30w-70 and the severity of the rattle reduced though was still there around the same rpms and load situations.

We (mechanic friend and I) diagnosed it by leaving car running, and unplugging injectors and revving. Injectors 2, 3 and 4, when unplugged and revved, the rattle was still there.

When we unplugged number 1, and revved it, the noise was gone. He explained this as meaning that when it was under load (cyl1) the parts were not free enough to rattle, though when we revved it under no load (with injector 1 connected or simply driving) the rattle was there, as well as if we floated the throttle (slight movements e.g. on highway) it was there also. Being that it was happening at highway 5th gear rpms, and that I mostly do highway km's, I was basically destroying it with my daily use.

Traded it into a dealer, he gave me $3k for it and I picked up a 2003 Mazda 6 Luxury Hatch (bose sound, all leather, sunroof, electric everything, climate control, curtain airbags and other features little red didn't have). 2.3l 4cyl, FWD and 4sp auto.
Goes nicely!

Haven't turned my back on Fuji Heavy Industries though, and I'll definitely be after a BRZ in a couple of years..maybe pick up a project subie before then though

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:30 pm

Shame...was looking forward to you reporting back at 200,000 with same noise.
Essentially you have fixed it

, just waiting now for a new member coming along with a 1997 Impreza with this funny rattle

.

Please don't google engine deaths amongst the 2.3's

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:59 am

steptoe wrote:Shame...was looking forward to you reporting back at 200,000 with same noise.
Essentially you have fixed it , just waiting now for a new member coming along with a 1997 Impreza with this funny rattle .

Please don't google engine deaths amongst the 2.3's

Being Generation Y, I have a fair command and handle on the use of the Google..and funnily enough..
EVERY engine failure for the 2.3 (that I could find) was in USA, most definitely not Australia. Odd as!
All I can see is a difference in fuel quality?
The issue was traced back to clogging PCV valves and a silly oil filter arrangement requiring special tools (and people not using such tools).

Pretty happy though, 2003 Luxury model for $10,888 changeover with 51,000km on the clock? Sure. I'll take that. Complete service history.

I sincerely hope it gets parted out or whoever eventually buys it know what they are getting..

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:18 am

Another one with very low km and a ? mark. Not much change out of fifty grand for them new back then. Admittedly I was surprised to see my first cactus 2.3 - in a 3 , and it was an oil rilter rep that told me it wasn't the first one he'd seen. So many of the Maz 3 and 6 sold - you'll be right for sure - we've got a few of them in the family

. These engines don't use keyways on the crank or cam from memory - tension keeps them locked in position ! No timing belts to worry about either

Those oil filter sockets are about in 36mm for VW etc, think it is same for the 2.3 in the 6. Environmental seems to be why they have gone this way again, save on metal cases being dumped

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:39 pm

steptoe wrote:Another one with very low km and a ? mark. Not much change out of fifty grand for them new back then. Admittedly I was surprised to see my first cactus 2.3 - in a 3 , and it was an oil rilter rep that told me it wasn't the first one he'd seen. So many of the Maz 3 and 6 sold - you'll be right for sure - we've got a few of them in the family . These engines don't use keyways on the crank or cam from memory - tension keeps them locked in position ! No timing belts to worry about either

Those oil filter sockets are about in 36mm for VW etc, think it is same for the 2.3 in the 6. Environmental seems to be why they have gone this way again, save on metal cases being dumped

Fairo, and I got it RACV checked and everything. I was sus on it given how little distance it had been traveled, checked the rego/vin titles, history as much as possible and it was all clean, everything clean as a whistle. I guess sometimes MAYBE you can find the real deal? Fingers crossed.

Going to get the spin on filter conversion though, if it's the only point of failure (and PCV) I'll stay on top of things.

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:02 am

Bradenrm wrote:Fairo, and I got it RACV checked and everything. I was sus on it given how little distance it had been traveled, checked the rego/vin titles, history as much as possible and it was all clean, everything clean as a whistle. I guess sometimes MAYBE you can find the real deal? Fingers crossed.

Going to get the spin on filter conversion though, if it's the only point of failure (and PCV) I'll stay on top of things.

How many kms/miles and age on the failures? We have an '04 SP23 here, at 160k kms, owned since new, no problems so far. Once one person cracked the oil filter housing, first sign was oil level going down, then rattle from oil starvation to the lifters. You can't see the oil leak on the 3 due to the tray underneath- when Mazda dropped the tray, a litre of oil fell out! Tray is part of the Euro enviro stuff no doubt to prevent oil dripping into the environment.

Plenty of low k cars here in Canberra, know someone at work with a 1988-91 Telstar Ghia hatchback with 30,000km on the clock, really looks like it too- so straight and tidy you'd swear it just came out of a factory.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 am

It might be unfair on the Maz3 as they fast became a top selling car for Maz, increasing sales and profit by 30% in the first few years and now top selling car pipping the Commodore ? Out of those big numbers there are bound to be a few who stretched things to buy a new car to get away from troubles of used, old car and continue the thrifty maintenance program. They were designed to run on semi synthetic engine oil for the 2.0 and think fully synthetic in the 2.3.

I can just see someone baulking at $35 for the Mobil Synth S now called 2000 for the 2.0 and steering towards a supermarket special 20W50 at a third of the price and skimp on the Z432 consumable item

My bet is if the service life and nutrition of the failures was looked into you'd find it was not just the fault of bad luck

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:53 pm

Bradenrm wrote:Fairo, and I got it RACV checked and everything. I was sus on it given how little distance it had been traveled, checked the rego/vin titles, history as much as possible and it was all clean, everything clean as a whistle. I guess sometimes MAYBE you can find the real deal? Fingers crossed.

I'm now wondering what crime it's been used in

Sounds like a good deal. It's a shame that someone else may end up with the issue you were solving... At least it went to a dealer rather than an individual - the dealer will either part it or sell it, with a warranty as required by law

All the best with your new beast, best get that subi project on the go!

Cheers

Bennie

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:23 pm

My experience of this vehicle over the past 8 yrs has been almost totally positive. Yes it has a few faults.

But my feeling of the 2.3l is that it's good, conservative design. It's more a GT rather than sports engine- torquey but reasonably revvable. It's not overstressed with a relatively low power output for its size pulling a reasonably small vehicle and there's no super-duper tech involved- the most is some variable valve timing. It does chug the gas a bit compared to recent vehicles (9l/100km).

Bradenrm, one thing to watch is the thermostat- if it gets stuck open (low temp most of the time, esp on freeway running) fuel economy suffers and the heater doesn't work effectively! We've had at least 3 Mazdas in our family over the past 20 yrs with this problem.

Cost of replacing the thermostat was (I think )~$181 by a mechanic, it saved me >1l/100km and at even 98 octane levels $181 / $1.50 per litre * 100km per litre = 12067 kms to pay itself back, or just over one 6mth/10000km service interval. Good $$$ sense there.

I don't think it requires the synthetic oils, from my read of the handbook, although semi-synthetic helps. It should even take 20W-50 from what I've read (and re-read) many times form the owner's handbook. Fuel economy suffers though with the thicker oils. Specs are wide, anything from 10W-30 to 20W-50 seems to fit what's in the handbook (season/temp dependent though). I think it only requires SJ or better spec. I can confirm later if necessary, but you get the idea.

'nuff from me, prob be back after w/end.

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:42 pm

Update:
Little red is for sale...for $6800!
They have it listed here: http://anscars.com.au/search.php. I can't provide a direct link due to their fancy website thingymabob, but if you narrow the search to "Subaru" It's the only 1997. It's mislabled as a GX when it's actually a Sportswagon. It's my old rego number and vin, e.t.c. so It's positive even without pics.

Don't buy it, tell your friends not to buy it and I hope that whoever does buy it is lucky in that it shits itself quickly and they can get their money back. With 169XXX on the clock, there's no Statutory warranty unfortunately.

Hopefully it goes to auction..I'll give them a thousand bucks for it

R.e. the Mazda, I'll definitely be doing the spin on filter conversion. I'm a bike mechanic and although that doesn't make me a car mechanic, it does expose me to a similar work environment..and I've seen plenty of dodgy work from supposed "experts". A spin on filter is about as idiot proof as it gets.

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:42 pm

I want my subie back

The Mazda just isn't in any way a drivers car, the engine has a lot of go in it but straight line never interested me that much. The Great Ocean road is my backyard, and the Mazda isn't the car to enjoy it as much in.

I received a PM from a new member confirming the rego number-he has no posts on the forum, wondering whether or not he bought it off the caryard and if they knew about the death rattle. Hasn't responded to my message back yet; I want to find it and buy it back.

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The Death Rattle for Little Red :(

The Death Rattle for Little Red :(

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