Stay away from sealed wheel bearings!

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:08 pm

Title says it all really

Following a painful week of wheel noise and chasing the wrong component thinking it was the problem today I stripped the drivers side hub down to check the bearings. Should mention to start with the bearings in this hub were installed not much more than a year ago if that and NOT BY ME! Professional service center did it as I didn't have the time back then, and no press.

I pulled the knuckle off the car and straight away knew something was wrong as there was a chip missing from the inner race of the outside bearing. Wiping the grease away I noticed the inner race of that bearing was full of hairline cracks, and the plastic sealing ring was no longer seated properly. Also the drive shaft itself where it meets the knuckle was covered in burnt/overheated grease. I went off to the press to try and press the offending articles out. Second thing I noticed; the spacer inbetween the bearings was jammed in place

Managed to bash it to one side and put some pressure on the bearing, this is what fell out the bottom:

Notice the outer race still inside the hub!

So this is why it was making so much noise! Such destruction I have never witnessed before! So bad even the balls themselves were pitted and cracked. The inner race (or the pieces of it) had heat discoloration.

Notice the sealing rings all melted around the edges.

Strangely enough the other bearing race was mostly okay, still turned smoothly although I could see one of the seals on that one was starting to go as well.

Moral of the story; I will never again buy a sealed type wheel bearing kit. Or if there's no option, I will pull the seals out and pack them myself. It's obvious what has happened here; either the seals weren't up to the job or someone damaged them on install but the grease has leaked out (or maybe there wasn't enough to begin with) and overheated everything. Explaining the burnt grease everywhere and destroyed inner race.

I had a RH knuckle with new bearings and seals ready to go lying around from when I converted the blue wagon to L series everything, so I put that in to finish the job quickly. These were sealed type bearings as well and as they were already installed I couldn't pull the seals out. But I'm not too bothered, if this side fails again in the next 12 months it will confirm my theory that sealed wheel bearings are useless. New hub in place, took it for a drive and now she rides silent and smooth again.

Also, camera tripods are useful for many things

David D · Post by **David D** » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:33 pm

Oh dear, that's not a pretty sight. Particularly for me as I have sealed bearings in the front of my Brumby. Must have lasted a couple of years so far but still a worry. After I fitted them I remember reading somewhere on here about packing sealed bearings oneself and that has always been in the back of my mind. Was the hub damaged at all?

David D

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:26 am

Those are the same bearings I have in my brumby. I didn't re-pack mine but I do know it is possible to do. I do know the plastic seals will come out but getting them back in is tricky. Mine have been in since I bought the brumby and I've not had a problem with them since. I'm pretty sure I did them at the end of 2009. I didn't have a press I Used a 3/4 drive socket that was the same diameter as the outer race of the bearing.

From what I can see in the pictures you have posted. the destruction of the bearings was caused by the "professional". either when the bearings were put in or when the shaft was put through bearings.

Was it you that said the castle nut wasn't tightened up properly on one of your axles when you got your car back?

TOONGA

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:32 am

Good quality sealed bearings should never need repacking. Either you were unlucky and got a factory dud bearing or as Toonga said, the 200lb gorilla who installed them did a number on them.

Regards

Doug

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:31 pm

I usually leave the outside facing seal in, remove the inside facing seal and pack grease into the bearing.
All the dirt/moisture comes from the outside, the bearing seal acts as a secondary seal, although most of the time they are not water rated seals.

And yes, good quality bearings with good seals will last a long time.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:01 pm

Should mention these were NTN!

Well if I got unlucky with a dud bearing, or the gorilla who installed it, I'm still going to opt for open type bearings in the future. Or good idea from Tambox and pick the inner seal out, pack properly on the inside.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:32 am

Perhaps they had the incorrect center spacer, and the bearings had too much pre load on them?
I think more likely the melted seal lips are a symptom not a cause...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:57 am

I gave my axle nuts an extra turret tighter to do the split pin , wondered if I had overtightened to do so. Think I recall seeing your pic of a stripped nut ? Nncolg might have something there ?

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:16 pm

I wonder if there was something done wrong in the install somehow.
I installed sealed bearings once - once.

(and again on a different car, no issues with that one either).

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:47 pm

I couldn't say if there was something dodgy on install or not. But if there was I would have thought the bearing would fail alot quicker. This one was fine for a year, one week there was a little vibration, then next week this mess! I don't think the spacer was a problem, when I took the car in for them to do it I drove it in and drove it out again so they must have used the spacer that was originally in there.

mrwalker500 · Post by **mrwalker500** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:45 am

I recently re packed the front wheel bearings in my Brumby, it was easier than expected and certainly cheaper than buying new bearings. The only costs were grease and the wheel hub seals from Repco, about $10 each from memory.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:27 pm

I swear by these bearings, not had an issue with them until I submerged my subi in muddy water.

New set of bearings in with repacked grease in 2010 and I can't remember doing them since.

The rears on the other hand... I go through them "regularly"

Cheers

Bennie

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:49 pm

Silverbullet, do you still have the old bearings? I'm wondering what clearance rating they were?
I'm in the process of chasing down some unexplained play in my front wheels at the moment and I suspect someone has fitted clearance bearings like 'C4' or something instead of what should be in there. I found some spare bearings I was given 'for the subaru' and they are C4 clearance, I suspect they were easier to get in the '2RS' rubber sealed type.

Perhaps yours instead had too tight a clearance rating...

Does anyone know what the OE 906010015 bearings are? plain 6207 or 6207c3?

I can't see wheel bearings needing a high speed clearance rating like c3 or c4...I certainly don't want any slop!

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:48 pm

Sorry mate, chucked the remnants long ago

I wasn't aware there were variances in clearance for these wheel bearings to be honest. Are these C numbers marked somewhere on the bearing itself? or on the box? If it helps, the bearing kit originally used came from eBay, there is a guy selling kits for MY and L among other things. All NTN branded.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:03 pm

Silverbullet wrote:Sorry mate, chucked the remnants long ago I wasn't aware there were variances in clearance for these wheel bearings to be honest. Are these C numbers marked somewhere on the bearing itself? or on the box? If it helps, the bearing kit originally used came from eBay, there is a guy selling kits for MY and L among other things. All NTN branded.

...it would be on both

BBoypebs · Post by **BBoypebs** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:41 am

I been running high speed bearings. They have slightly more clearance to allow for more heat. I also remove the seals and pack with water proof grease.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:27 am

BBoypebs wrote:I been running high speed bearings. They have slightly more clearance to allow for more heat. I also remove the seals and pack with water proof grease.

In your road going subi or the rally one? Just curious.

I'd also like to see what this water proof grease looks like and is it worth the effort?

Cheers

Bennie

BBoypebs · Post by **BBoypebs** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:58 pm

I was running it in the old brumby. The grease repel water and prevents the water mixing in with the grease. Touch wood so good so far. I get mine from John Deere. Another I been trying is extreme pressure grease in the RS.

coxy · Post by **coxy** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Sealed C3 clearance are the OE spec for most wheelbearings, If it was a track car then maybe you would try the metal shielded ones with the right grease as they have a higher speed rating than the 2RS rubber sealed ones.

Usually what causes failure is water getting in past the seals and it happens two ways, With the Rally Cars with plenty of heat in the brakes and hence hubs as soon as you hit water everything cools very quickly and it sucks water in past the seals but more often than not it is owner induced failure from using a pressure washer.

When using a pressure washer make sure any area with bearings bounce the water off something else to clean with an indirect water spray because a minimum of 2500 psi pressure will go straignt through hub seals and even driveshaft seals if pointed directly at the seal area.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:46 pm

Well here I am pretty much a year later to the day since I last had wheel bearing problems on the ute - and what do I find myself doing?

Every year around this time, for the last 3 years, I've had some problem with the ute with front wheel bearings or drive shafts (my drive shafts this year are stuffed too) You'll notice this is a different side to last years (and the reason this thread was started) And, once again, the sealed front wheel bearings have let me down. I know for a fact the sealed bearings I replaced today were put in properly - this hub/knuckle was originally on my wagon resto project before I changed to all L series stuff.

Started out as a little *squik* *squik* *squik* that came and went at random times and I could never track down, thought it was something rubbing. Last week I had to travel 60+k's every day for training and towards the end of one leg the *squik* got really bad and was accompanied by a clunk clunk as well. Pulled over, checked everything, couldn't find issue.

Today I pulled the hub down to investigate and found the grease from inside the sealed bearings had leaked out, bearings were cooked (inner and outer) and chunks missing from the inner race of the outer bearing (see photo) Luckily I had a CBC bearing and seal kit in the shed still from last years episode - no hesitation in throwing the sealed bearings in the bin and replacing with open type properly greased with good grease. Took note this time, the sealed bearings had C3 etched on the outer race, as do the new ones.

Must have been the longer trip than normal gave the bearings time to really heat up, there was cooked grease stuck to the drive shaft/axle stub and the bearing spacer which lives in the middle. Also noted CV grease has splattered around from the inner CV so probably the heat has done some other damage. Luckily I jumped on this straight away and didn't give the bearing time to break into pieces as in last year.