what to do...

[sven]

After months of searching the trader, carpoint, ebay, leaving notes on cars like a crazed stalker, looking at stock cars to start a build again, modified cars, junk, rip-offs and stary-eyed-dreamers, am faced with now 3.2 front runners in my quest for replacement.

Willie's wagon as seen in the for sale section. The reputation of this this car, the work that has gone into it, need no introduction. Is a beauty

A beastly RS lib wagon (on ebay at the moment) - drove it yesterday. Very smooth and fast, owned by a fanatic, low kms

A turbo L wagon with AWD and RS hubs/mags/brakes.

A SEAT GTI with a VR6 motor fitted (outside runner...it's not a subaru afterall)

Never thought i would sway from Ls, but the liberty has me thinking...then what to do with a shed (and driveway as reminded every other day) full of L stuff...so much so I would never need to visit a wrecker again! If i did go for the RS, all the L stuff would go for crazy crazy never-to-be-repeated prices. would be cheaper than a divorce

Anyone else made the 'leap' from Ls to Libs?

a confused Sven

[steptoe]

I know your pain . Better let the missus 'help' you make the decision, and if it is a money thing stick with your L stuff. The lib idea is advancing yourself I'm sure and would be a good cleanout - so you can start the collection thing again. I am toying with the same dilemma and thinking all my L stuff will go except for what fits my Brumbys

Goodluck

Willies sounds so good and you are close to a guru to finish sorting its little behavoural problem

[Captain Obvious]

i went from RX Turbo lifted and setup for offroad to a lib gx wagon with rs conversion, miss the L heaps and it was way better offroad but the lib it faster on the hiway and has a/c they both have there ups and downs!!! at the end of the day its your choice!

[Subafury]

i reckon stick with this worked L series. u have load of parts it just makes sense.
it'll replace the one u had - and even sounds better.

[Matatak]

stick to the Ls aswell i reckon

dont be thinkin bout no non subaru either lol

[Ben]

Anyone else made the 'leap' from Ls to Libs?

I went from a RS engined L series Sedan to a Gen 3 Liberty Sedan. Best thing I ever did, may not have the pace but was certainly 10,000 times the car.

Had a L again since the Lib, hated it, was fun but hated it. Now have a H6 Outback, pace and class.

From the desc you give you want a ball tearer not an offroad weapon. RS or GTI is the pick there....

Is Seat in bed with Audi/VW or is it an aftermarket job?

[4xsama]

Anything but the seat!

You could argue the Willys was the father of the 4x4 ..... Subi.

[discopotato03]

An early RS Liberty weighs 1355Kg and they don't hide when parked in the street . An innocent RX sedan is another brick in the wall which means no one wants to steal it . Also its 1070Kg ringing wet .

No ones really done a number on an EA82T - by that I mean all the best factory bits like cams/manifolds/pistons and doctored the management system . RX rally cars are supposed to have had approx 190 Hp and that was with the homologated std low rent inlet manifold and turbo + no intercooler .

If you have a close look at early EJ20 turbo motors they're no ball of fire , the heads are very average for 4 valves per cylinder and the horrible single pipe header makes them gutless compared to many other DOHC 16V fours .

To do a EJ conversion and run it standard is not economic in my book . To do it and fix their issues is more than justifyable on an L series . To rip out the EA82T and build it properly means you have what looks like a std engine (std Vortex anyway) and it falls back in and is serviced as per usual . Insurance wise no different and virtually nothing that inquiring eyes are going to notice .

If you do the 5 stud conversion you have the same front end almost and same brake system . You can't easily emulate the rear Lib/Imp suspension BUT the size and height of the superstructure on top of it doesn't require it . In my book lightweight is EVERYTHING . Off road compact and lightweight is EVERYTHING . Big car on narrow trail is a dramna . Heavy vehicle on soft surface is a drama . Low rev torque in many an EJ20 turbo is a drama off road .
For tarmac performance weight is critical . To increase the power output for little or zip weight increase means a higher power to weight ratio .
Heavy cars do not like changing direction easily so lighter ones with good suspension geometry are far more agile . Its very easy to try and build performance cars and ending up with a truck . Bigger engine/gearbox/diff's/brakes/wheels and it can = a lead tipped arrow . If you start light and optimise whats there the result can at times be very good .

I know many agonise over the L/Liberty debate and I did once too . I guess the justifications are the later car is larger and has some technoligical updates but its the end result we're shooting for . For me I'm not out to impress anyone else - they can pay for their own entertainment !
For me the result being function is everything - I admit I'm bent and the early life hotted up Minis burnt a permanent must have the wolf in sheeps clothing aspect in my cars .

Another thing to keep in mind is what its all going to cost and what you can get for it when tired of it . The trend these days is anything a bit rare and original - particularly a factory original - is worth money if in reasonable nick . An early retro turbo Liberty doesn't sell for much whereas an RX turbo with all the getting real hard to find best bits is becomming more collectable and worthy of a realistic sale price . I've been there before with modifying a plain Jane car and while the results were great the resale value was very poor . My plan now is to give the RX all the best factory bits I can find while keeping the original bits on ice . That way if no one will pay reasonable money for the finished product I can refit the std bits and sell a std car for ok money knowing that the rare gems will hold their value .

Just my opinons and 2c spent , cheers all - A .

[steptoe]

190 HP ? umm, how ? you running the factory ECU or the rally works ECU like Subieone mick sold to someone in tassie?

[AlpineRaven]

I have an 2nd Gen Liberty here, Happy with it as it goes well doesnt have any problems *touch wood* and I know I shouldnt "work on it" for fun, parts are limited as the prices are sky rocket high!

In my days, I always liked buying cheap cars and do them up and drive them!, I knew where the parts were to get them cheap but useable! If you are mechanically minded and have bit of money to toss around, get a L Series they'll be fun to work on as there is tons of parts out there, WAYYY more than Liberty. But again Gen 1 Liberty are starting to hit the wreckers slowly....

If I wasn't committed to buy a house, if I was single etc - for sure right now I would be driving lifted L series converted 4WD (AWD gearbox) with EJ22 sedan with 15" 5 bolt mags....

Cheers
AP

[sven]

Thanks guys,

Have debated this back and forth, waking up in paniced sweat in middle of the night, boring the life out of non-car ffiends and family...but have come to a decision.

Do both.

Have bought the RS Wagon - perfect for highway cruising and family trips away - have young kids at the moment who aren't into the whole 5 hour recovery off a beach with incoming tide (Beachport Easter 2001, remember steve?!) in the middle of the night thing...as fun as this is.

That way all the parts built up over years will be of use...will still have to do a cull, can only think having more than one subaru on the go is a good thing.

Caught up with Geach who sold me the L that was eventually crashed...poor fella, I think it brought a rear to his eye. He went on the buy a RS wagon too after selling me the L...maybe there was something 'special' about that little beast.

Stay tuned, will post some more photos when i can work out how.

Thanks again

Sven

[El_Freddo]

Hahaha... someone defenately has the subaru bug!

Best of both worlds...

I take it your going for willy's turbo L?

Have fun mate!

[Geach]

An early RS Liberty weighs 1355Kg and they don't hide when parked in the street . An innocent RX sedan is another brick in the wall which means no one wants to steal it . Also its 1070Kg ringing wet .

No ones really done a number on an EA82T - by that I mean all the best factory bits like cams/manifolds/pistons and doctored the management system . RX rally cars are supposed to have had approx 190 Hp and that was with the homologated std low rent inlet manifold and turbo + no intercooler .

If you have a close look at early EJ20 turbo motors they're no ball of fire , the heads are very average for 4 valves per cylinder and the horrible single pipe header makes them gutless compared to many other DOHC 16V fours .

To do a EJ conversion and run it standard is not economic in my book . To do it and fix their issues is more than justifyable on an L series . To rip out the EA82T and build it properly means you have what looks like a std engine (std Vortex anyway) and it falls back in and is serviced as per usual . Insurance wise no different and virtually nothing that inquiring eyes are going to notice .

If you do the 5 stud conversion you have the same front end almost and same brake system . You can't easily emulate the rear Lib/Imp suspension BUT the size and height of the superstructure on top of it doesn't require it . In my book lightweight is EVERYTHING . Off road compact and lightweight is EVERYTHING . Big car on narrow trail is a dramna . Heavy vehicle on soft surface is a drama . Low rev torque in many an EJ20 turbo is a drama off road .
For tarmac performance weight is critical . To increase the power output for little or zip weight increase means a higher power to weight ratio .
Heavy cars do not like changing direction easily so lighter ones with good suspension geometry are far more agile . Its very easy to try and build performance cars and ending up with a truck . Bigger engine/gearbox/diff's/brakes/wheels and it can = a lead tipped arrow . If you start light and optimise whats there the result can at times be very good .

I know many agonise over the L/Liberty debate and I did once too . I guess the justifications are the later car is larger and has some technoligical updates but its the end result we're shooting for . For me I'm not out to impress anyone else - they can pay for their own entertainment !
For me the result being function is everything - I admit I'm bent and the early life hotted up Minis burnt a permanent must have the wolf in sheeps clothing aspect in my cars .

Another thing to keep in mind is what its all going to cost and what you can get for it when tired of it . The trend these days is anything a bit rare and original - particularly a factory original - is worth money if in reasonable nick . An early retro turbo Liberty doesn't sell for much whereas an RX turbo with all the getting real hard to find best bits is becomming more collectable and worthy of a realistic sale price . I've been there before with modifying a plain Jane car and while the results were great the resale value was very poor . My plan now is to give the RX all the best factory bits I can find while keeping the original bits on ice . That way if no one will pay reasonable money for the finished product I can refit the std bits and sell a std car for ok money knowing that the rare gems will hold their value .

Just my opinons and 2c spent , cheers all - A .

i know steve has made a descision - but for future reference:

there are couple of things i disagree with here because i have had the benifit owning and modifying both of the vehicles in question. firstly there is nothing wrong with the early EJ20T - 200hp out of the box, with the addition of a TBE, fuel pump and Vos chip you can be making a reliable 200hp atw. RS Turbo's also had a factory recall which involved a complete rebuild of the motor with new pistons, rings and heads to earl WRX spec. this eliminated the tappet noise and faulty coils. i believe steve's example has had this done.

they certainly don't have the ugly siamese exhaust ports of the EA82T! the header design on the RS in actual fact is a slightly better design the rexes that followed!

there was a guy on here with a white RX 'quikRX' i think - he spent a fortune on his motor (EA82T) tweaking it up and it was certainly powerful, the reliability and bang for bucks versus and EJ20T was not comparable though.

handling wise the RS is in a different league (as you would expect!) AWD, suspension etc. lets face it the L's were not designed to handle. with some well choosen modifications from the WRX (GC8 predominantly) parts bin you can make a liberty handle superbly - albeit with a weight and wheelbase penalty compared to the WRX. but we're not talking about the everyman WRX....

the rareness factor is one that is not well recognised - subaru australia brought in 1100 RS turbos. 110 of which were wagons. finding a good clean unadulterated example is getting harder and harder (wagon or sedan!). i can think of 5 wagons that have been found dead or been killed since i've owned mine. i imagine there is a lot less than 100 genuine RS's wagons left after 15 years!

but after all that i don't really think we're comparing apples with apples - I would love to have kept my L series and installed an LSD, bigger tyres etc on and used it to embarass big 4WD's. but i was motivated by acceleration - some the L couldn't match with an RS.

now i have an RS wagon which embarrasses WRX's and in all likelyhood will be running a low 13 sec (perhaps late 12) in 4 weeks - all on a stock EJ20 motor. oh and it returns less than 10L/100km on the highway packing 230hp (soon to be in excess of... ) at the wheels.

wouldn't take it up a bush track though!!!!

and don't worry there are times where i miss my L. she didn't deserve to go like that.

[sven]

Thanks again guys,

No doubt the passion and know-how people 'round here!!

Ben, the SEAT GTI was a sporty 2 door with either a 2lt or 2lt twin cam in aust at least.

The VW Golf VR6 'fits' into the SEAT GTI - which essentially is a narrow golf, but cheaper and with poorer build quality.

You are quite right, a lot of the parts have three logos - audi, VW & SEAT

Then you end up with car very light car, with 6 cylinder 2.7lt motor - very fast/scary.

But have stuck with the subaru brand - have had them for 14 years, and see no need to change now

[sven]

Took the RS wagon on its maiden voyage...down to Goolwa.

those that know SA will know this road is a great test of of car...lots of hills, curves, straights etc.

The wagon was a dream to drive...pulled 120kph up Willunga Hill in 5th on cruise control no sweat (My old NA L series was 80kph in third), great handling, averaged about 10lt/100km - much better that the EA82T.

But...could not do the Murray Mouth run along the beach like L did. Will miss that car a lot, but as they say, one chapter closes, another opens

[cooloothin]

very poetic sven no more than fitting for these fantastic vehicles.