Ethanol

jsubie · Post by **jsubie** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:05 pm

Does anyone run their car with the Ethanol- petrol mix? What do you think? I use to run my Nissan and it went well.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:50 am

E10 - I find the liberty uses more fuel rather than normal unleaded.
Cheers
AP

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:32 am

I'm sure this was covered somewhere previously, possibly on a previous incarnation of the board.

In simple terms the Ethanol has a similar effect to NOS but on a much smaller scale, it has very low energy density compared to petrol but it provides a high oxygen content to ignition of the fuel, giving you a better bigger explosion.

So because you have 10% ethanol in your fuel you (more or less) have 10% less fuel but the fuel you do have will burn better, giving you more power for less distance.....if that makes sense.

Jordan.

Edit: It also gives you an effectively higher octane rating out of cheaper fuel which can also help your performance.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:58 am

I run a tank every now and then when i can get to a servo that supplies it - in bendigo everyone seems to be dead against it.

Over time with continual use your rubber hoses that the fuel runs through will become hardened and therefore brittle. This also goes for o rings and the like in the fuel system. This is what people are afraid of (in my opinion) as the big car companies won't honor the warranty of a car that is run on ethanol fuels.

As i'm my own mechanic and hopefully know the "risks" i'm happy to run on these blended fuels, my L seems to like these fuels too - and i've not noticed any change in the fuel economy... might have to keep a closer eye on this one.

Cheers

Bennie

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:35 pm

When i put it in my carbed ea82, i had nothing but trouble, it was hard to start when hot and seemed to have less power.
I havent been game to try it in the ea82t yet as i only run 98 premium.

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:44 pm

I run E10 now & then (EA82T). I think the car actually runs better/smoother on it. I do get about 30Kms more a tank on E10.......

crundle · Post by **crundle** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:08 pm

Ran it in my carby 91 L series and it seemed to be difficult to start when hot and didn't have as much power as normal unleaded going up the Southern Expressway on the way home from work. Having said that, I just had the car serviced so it might be an idea to try a tank again to compare.

I normally run on normal unleaded with a tank of high octane unleaded every now and then, especially if going for a long drive to Yorke Peninsula to give it a clean out.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:14 pm

I've been running it for nearly 2 years now. Fuel hoses are all fine. The first 5-6 tanks I used must have cleaned the engine out because I got progressively better fuel consumption, 7.8L/100Km was my best which is extraordinary for an EJ20G!

Need to change some seals on the engine soon so I might have a look in one of the cylinders and see what it looks like.

jsubie · Post by **jsubie** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:03 pm

I'm finding it hard to start at the moment' but I think the engine sound smoother.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:02 pm

I might have to give it a go
What is the octane rating of the e10 fuel?

plucky · Post by **plucky** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:02 am

I tried it in my EA81 and it pinged like mad and ran like a pile of poo! I notice that people with cars with injection/electronic engine management give it a good report, whereas those with carbies seem to have problems. The electronic engine management can compensate for it (knock sensors, O2 sensors etc.) where the carb engines can't. I know I'll not use it unless absolutely necessary.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:45 am

I notice that people with cars with injection/electronic engine management give it a good report,

Put me down for a big NO on this one. My fuel injected car thinks it is crap. It pings it's head off with it.

I have written this before and I dare say it will be the last time on this subject. I drove to Maryborough from Caboolture car with a car trailer to pick up Liberty. The car ran perfectly well on the way up there with BP Ultimate in it.

We loaded the car on and headed home. The car was still running well and had plenty of power. It needed fuel desperately so I filled it up. Unfortunately I used a 98 octane with 10 percent Ethanol.

Within 7-8 kilometres the car had lost a stack of power and was pinging under the load at 110kph on flat roads. Hills were a joke and saw me back a few gears and down to about 60-65kph.

Fuel consumption was around 25l/100 or worse. I had used well over half a tank to Gympie. At Gympie I stopped at the BP and filled up with Ultimate again. So the fuel blend in there was probably 40 percent crap and 60 percent Ultimate. By the time we had got to the big Matilda garage the car was running better. Still not perfect but better. Pinging was noticeably less.
We used around 18/100 sitting on 110 on the way home.

In my opinion "Myth Busted" about better power and fuel economy, in my car any way. 2.5 MPFI Turbo

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:19 am

BYB-01 I agree with you, in high performance engines like yours it wont run very well as most E10 fuels are 95RON. (unless its BP) Older motors like the EA82T were designed to run on 91RON......

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:59 am

Justin you had better check you RX owners manual (GLOVEBOX BOOK) as it says something in big bold letters about using nothing under 94RON.

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:33 am

Interesting the FSM i have says Australian Models (Flapper AFM) were tuned for 91RON While JDM & Hot Wire AFM vehicles were tuned for 95RON.??????????????

dfoyl · Post by **dfoyl** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:40 pm

I used it a couple of times on my trip up to northern NSW in the past few days and no problems at all on my EA81 Hitachi-carb Brumby. Didn't appear to make any improvement or loss in power, fuel economy seemed unchanged but I wasn't counting exact # k's per tankful either.

I had heard it has a RON of 95 compared to standard unleaded of 91 ?

Dean.

julian · Post by **julian** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:18 pm

BaronVonChickenPants wrote: In simple terms the Ethanol has a similar effect to NOS but on a much smaller scale.

Sorry but this 'aint true.
When burnt, ethanol consumes oxygen whereas nitrous oxide donates oxygen to the combustion process.
You are however totally correct about the lower energy density (or energy content per unit volume); a combustion engine running an ethanol blended fuel requires a greater overall volume of fuel to achieve the same power output, thus the decrease in volumetric efficiency.

El_Freddo wrote: Over time with continual use your rubber hoses that the fuel runs through will become hardened and therefore brittle. This also goes for o rings and the like in the fuel system. This is what people are afraid of (in my opinion) as the big car companies won't honor the warranty of a car that is run on ethanol fuels.
Bennie

This is true for cars that run natural based rubber hoses and parts in the fuel system, but I have read somewhere that Subaru is one of the few car companies that has been using synthetic rubbers such as neoprene for its car fuel systems, but I can't say for sure or for how long...

Also, being a very polar solvent, ethanol can have a marked cleansing effect. Buildups of impurities that are "resistant" to dissolution by the long chain hydrocarbons such as octane may be reduced by the polar ethanol molecules.

On a last note of chemistry, the octane rating of a fuel is not a measure of the fuels quality or energy content. Rather it is an arbitrary rating of the fuel's ability to withstand detonation. You are actually going to lose power by running a higher octane fuel in a car that just doesn't need it. Just find a fuel that doesn't ping under full load on a warm day and stick to it. So if your friend in his "fully sick" 180SX says his car runs fine on 91, but he boasts about running 98 octane you have the last laugh...
Can't remember off the top of my head, but ethanol has an octane rating well beyond 100 on the RON scale, and can be run at ridiculously high compression ratios if being used as the only fuel, thus any crap hydrocarbon fuel can have its octane level "boosted" by blending it with a higher octane rating additive. This may account for some users bad experiences of power and reliability.

Sorry about the whole chemistry lesson...

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:45 pm

I ran my ea81 brumby on E10 for some time. They were pushing people onto it with 4c then 2cent litre discounts here in toowoomba. Car didn't perform as well as I wished but was ok. I run it all the time now on BP ultimate nothing else. Anything less and it pings its head off. Anyway back to the E10. One day going home from work it just stopped. I got it restarted and to cut a long story short (please) ended up pulling the carb apart. The jets were covered in flake and with an intensive clean, drain the tank, new filters away it went. No more E10 for me..won"t touch it.

jsubie · Post by **jsubie** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:11 am

I've been running my L-series for a few weeks now on E10 and I can't notice any difference in the car.

Suby Roo · Post by **Suby Roo** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:31 am

I run my 92 L carb on the ethanol fuel most of the time and i seem to be able to get more power out of it. Never had a problem with it.