ft 86

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:11 pm

niterida wrote:If it comes out close to $30k then I would consider buying one for sure.

Would love to see that but I would look at it being that figure + a half again (at least), this won't be a high volume import.

Incidentally I can't find pricing anywhere on the internet or any of the subaru web sites.

TOONGA

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:04 pm

The Toyota version is apparently going to be low 30's - so yeah I would imagine the Subie one would be high 30's ??

If they do a turbo STi version with 200+kw and can keep prices under $50k - woohoo what a rocket that'd be on the road and out of the showrooms.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:45 am

Yes I read the whole spiel and find the engine underwhelming . Torque peak 6600 rpm and power peak 7000 , I think it said 156 ft/lbs and 198 Hp .
Sure throw a blower or turbo at it but what do you do for traction ?

As for not switching off life support , thats a bit wet . I say disable it all and put someone who is of real race standard in the seat and really wring its neck .
Its not going to get anywhere near any real super car regardless of what its center of gravity is . I want to see the 86 taken to the old Nurberg Ring and driven as hard and fast as a top level driver possibly can because that will tell the real story . Sub 200 hp with 156 pounds of torque and around 1200 kg , in other words 167hp/tonne + 131 ft lbs/tonne , isn't going to be fast out of the bends and the AWD turbo terrors will destroy it .
My 11 year old Mitsy when new , and again on paper , made 203 hp/tonne and 206 ft lbs/tonne . Its a 1360 kg GSR and the Aus delivered 6TMEs were 100 kg lighter or 219hp and 222 ft lbs/tonne . The RS model was even lighter so it gets better .
Oh , and these things make their peak torque (280 fl lbs vs 156) at depending on the model 2750 revs or 3000 . This is less than half the revs your 86 finds its peak and theres around 44% more down there .
What do you thinks going to happen when you cruise into a hill , are we going back 2 cogs or 4 ?
Function is everything and when a manufacturer tries hard to make the basis of a Group A Rally homologation special it takes a bit more than trying to make what they think is a real road drivers car .
Admittedly the two makes are worlds apart and the Lancer was not cheap at 69 grand in 1999 . Move forward to 2010 and pay 16 -18 for a good clean one and it makes 30 plus look a bit silly .
But theres more , four doors and four seats and even a bit of a boot .

We wait we see , time will tell .

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:12 pm

TOONGA wrote:Would love to see that but I would look at it being that figure + a half again (at least), this won't be a high volume import.

Incidentally I can't find pricing anywhere on the internet or any of the subaru web sites.

TOONGA

i have read a article saying that subaru has said if it does come to our shores it will be around the $35 grand mark about the same as the toyota. once again the aim for the car was a budget sports car. subaru dont want a turbo version as they dont want it to compete with the upmarket and the main race car from subaru the WRX

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:05 pm

thunder039 wrote:subaru dont want a turbo version as they dont want it to compete with the upmarket and the main race car from subaru the WRX

Well said - the WRX is an upmarket turbo these days, it used to be known as the poor man's porsche. Subaru have certainly lost that focus

And I think the new line up of models is too bloody big!

Cheers

Bennie

dobo · Post by **dobo** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:24 pm

Yeah the newer suby models seem to be moving into the "Camry" category of boring, i mean what is this?

the brz on the other hand is something i would seriously considering picking up in 5+ years. to be honest even if there was a turbo sti version i would rather have the 2 litre FA, maybe with some suspension mods(if it even needs it). I would rather drive something i can push to the limit, rather than try and find my own limit. Its something that would teach you to drive better, not just get more cocky.

Greddy one looks awesome!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:27 pm

dobo wrote:Yeah the newer suby models seem to be moving into the "Camry" category of boring, i mean what is this?

That's what I'm talking about! And the new liberty looks like a late 90's tarago!

Also while I'm subi bashing - the new subaru model that we're talking about here, while it's exciting, it's still looking like an RX8 to me, just no rear funky doors...

Cheers

Bennie

sublime · Post by **sublime** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:34 pm

From reading this thread I can't help but feel some people want the 86/BRZ to be all things to all people!! Not possible is it?

The 86/BRZ is not meant to be a 'supercar'. If it was there would be no point in calling it the '86' and bringing back memories of AE86.

I say hurry up already! Get these bloody twins on sale!

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:43 pm

Nah bugger the BRZ - I want the new Liberty :

http://www.caradvice.com.au/144543/suba ... otor-show/

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:45 pm

with out a doubt current subaru's look boring and have lost focus of there most popular cars that have all been unique or ery practical eg brumby, insane WRX'S, l series wagons and the forester when it was released. hopefully its just a spell for subaru, but only time will tell

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:01 pm

Adrian, I think you are being too cynical. This car isnt designed to compete with WRX's, EVO's or GTR's. It is for people who want a middle priced car that is nippy and comfortable for their daily commute, but can also be thrown around a track on a weekend for a bit of fun. Very few will be really competing with it on a race track.
The next WRX is headed in a different direction and will be a separate model from the Impreza. It will be turbo 1.6L so it can get back into the rally scene.

As for the electronic wizardry, complying with emission standards is a fact of life, and direct injection is a great for both increasing power and fuel economy. The TCS can be turned off if need be, but I still dont understand what you have against ABS. I bet that you couldn't pull a car up as quick without ABS as you could with it. Sure it removes a little bit of feel from the braking, but who needs feel when ya mrs has to slam the pedal to miss a stray cow on a wet road.

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:08 pm

Gannon wrote:Adrian, I think you are being too cynical. This car isnt designed to compete with WRX's, EVO's or GTR's. It is for people who want a middle priced car that is nippy and comfortable for their daily commute, but can also be thrown around a track on a weekend for a bit of fun. Very few will be really competing with it on a race track.
The next WRX is headed in a different direction and will be a separate model from the Impreza. It will be turbo 1.6L so it can get back into the rally scene.
.

very ture the wrx is in a different league which is its built for a race car while the brz is a 'drivers' car for people wanting a fun car while not costing a arm and a league, much like how the nissan sports cars used to be

dobo · Post by **dobo** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:43 pm

niterida wrote:Nah bugger the BRZ - I want the new Liberty :

http://www.caradvice.com.au/144543/suba ... otor-show/

If only it wasn't a hybrid!! It looks good but seriously?

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:30 pm

dobo wrote:If only it wasn't a hybrid!! It looks good but seriously?

Why don't you like hybrids? When you engage the electric motor it adds performance... just watch F1 do it to overtake.

As the technology gets better (batteries, energy regeneration, motors) we will ALL be wanting hybrids then outright electric cars. Just as now everyone has cordless this n that, who would want a hard wired phone, or the old mobile phone brick from the 90s? Electric cars are in that stage now, just like an awkward teenager. But when they mature anything else will be slow & heavy with terrible handling by comparison!

Get used to the idea that petrol engines will soon become prehistoric relics only fit for a museum or boat anchor! & I can't wait

dobo · Post by **dobo** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:36 pm

nachaluva wrote:Why don't you like hybrids? When you engage the electric motor it adds performance... just watch F1 do it to overtake.

As the technology gets better (batteries, energy regeneration, motors) we will ALL be wanting hybrids then outright electric cars. Just as now everyone has cordless this n that, who would want a hard wired phone, or the old mobile phone brick from the 90s? Electric cars are in that stage now, just like an awkward teenager. But when they mature anything else will be slow & heavy with terrible handling by comparison!

Get used to the idea that petrol engines will soon become prehistoric relics only fit for a museum or boat anchor! & I can't wait

I agree about the future but at the moment hybrid electric cars are less of a moving forward advancement and more of a sideways step to sell cars. They put forward the illusion of sustainability yet with the current use of Nickel–metal hydride battery's, they are anything but.

The technology just isn't there yet. A new Lib or outback with a turbo diesel is much more appealing and would get similar economy, plus how is towing with a hybrid?

I think we've got many more years of petrol fueled motoring ahead, not forever but i cant see it ending anytime soon.

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:42 pm

this is more than likely the real reason behind the BRZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl7VfFKE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT

TOONGA

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:08 pm

JPM wrote:Here's hoping Subaru Australia bring out the BRZ, otherwise my next car will have to be a Toyota FT86.

1st June 2012

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:43 pm

dobo wrote:I agree about the future but at the moment hybrid electric cars are less of a moving forward advancement and more of a sideways step to sell cars. They put forward the illusion of sustainability yet with the current use of Nickel–metal hydride battery's, they are anything but.

The technology just isn't there yet. A new Lib or outback with a turbo diesel is much more appealing and would get similar economy, plus how is towing with a hybrid?

I think we've got many more years of petrol fueled motoring ahead, not forever but i cant see it ending anytime soon.

I agree with a lot of what you've said. Electric cars have a loooong way to go. I dont think they're a sideways step, more of a bridging step. I think there are many years of petrol motoring to come as well, but i think that in less than 2 decades we'll mostly be driving electric cars. In 3 decades petrol cars will be banned from everyday driving & you will need permits to take them on the open road. Not that you will want to cos their performance would be woeful by comparison, the price & unavailability of petrol will be extreme & you would be embarrassed to be associated with anything so noisy, smelly, toxic & dangerous compared to the silent, clean, electric cars of the time.

The 2 biggest things holding back electric vehicles are electricity production (still dominated by dirty fossil fuels) & batteries (still FAR too heavy & toxic to produce & limited in power supply & capacity, therefore performance & range). But as with all technology it is rapidly improving. There is already an electric sports car that can accelerate from 0-100kmh in i think just over 3sec. It is just a matter of time...

TOONGA wrote:this is more than likely the real reason behind the BRZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl7VfFKE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT

TOONGA

That BRZ GT300 is one seriously sexy car

Frog, are you saying Subaru Oz IS bringing out the BRZ?

Battlewagon · Post by **Battlewagon** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:50 pm

Hydrogen.
There's your next generation fuel, right there.
Produce it with solar power.
Direct inject it into a turboed h6....
Put it into the BRZ
The oil companies will go mental.
I'm not too sure, but I think the internal combustion engine will be around for a long while yet.

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:55 pm

Which car is the one that is a Subaru-Toyota?
The Toybaru as I call it.
I think it is a 2.0L Sub engine with a toy fuel injection system.