2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Sat May 14, 2011 3:11 am

Suthol,

that's the kind of generic reply I was referring to (shudder). Note no specific information, no commitment or timeframe and no name/personal signature at the bottom.

Regarding the glow plugs and fuse, I heard all Subaru's factories were affected in Japan by the tsunami/earthquake so there's a good chance parts will be delayed. A fuse from Japan is ridiculous though! And referring to the dealer and your plugs shows someone at least looked at your email- but still no commitment or answers for you. I suggest you ring and speak to someone (get their name), and ask them (politely) "What actually is taking place?" and "When do you expect the parts to arrive?". If they can't answer directly (not unreasonable if they're public relations) make sure they get back to you - "When will you call me back with this information?". Call them back if they don't. Just remain firm but polite, and write things down.

Obj example: At work, after 4 months waiting for a memory upgrade from IT my supervisor requested in early January and 3 or so polite email reminders (IT at our work is slow), I lost my patience and rang up myself on Thursday afternoon, to find the parts had been bought (but not installed)... so the job had been closed! I confirmed my facts and rang back to tell them: no, the request was actually for a RAM upgrade to the PC (not purchase of memory stored by you, and I had the original email to prove it) and the PC had not been upgraded. The RAM was found and installed before I arrived at work mid-morning on Friday- from 4 months waiting down to less than one day! I did make a point of personally thanking the person who chased it up for me... that's always good for future requests

Regarding fuel quality- Previously by me:

pitrack_1 wrote: The combined opinions of an ex Toyota dealer mechanic, a Subaru dealership, an ex fuel refinery scientist and a current diesel mechanic I've spoken to are that Australia's fuels aren't much chop compared to Europe/ North America. Quite variable and subject to contamination. So perhaps try changing your refuelling supplier also.

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:32 am

pitrack_1 wrote:Suthol,

that's the kind of generic reply I was referring to (shudder). Note no specific information, no commitment or timeframe and no name/personal signature at the bottom.

There was a name and email address on the reply, I edited it out of my post.

Still very generic though and also still nothing from the dealer.

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:35 am

I assume there are a few of you out there learning, like me, the nuances of diesel engine operations after converting across from petrol.

There's been a cold snap here in Canberra so those of you considering going to the snow should perhaps have a look at the following:

1) http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_interne ... ummary.pdf

2) http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_interne ... egions.pdf

and read in conjuction with (Forester 2010 manuals, sorry Outback-sters)
* Forester manual p7-2 to 7-3
* Forester Aust Supplement p4 to p5
* Forester Diesel engine Supplement p2 (which seems to be actually Aust specific)

A couple of definition differences, though:
1) Winter diesel in the Subaru manuals may in fact be analogous to Alpine diesel in Aust. Certainly BP say that 'winter' diesel is distributed in non-alpine areas and unsuitable for alpine areas in winter, but Subaru says it is OK...
2) What BP says about adding additives, Kero, heating oil Subaru specifically warns against.
3) Some strange outliers in the Areas list. Does Cabramurra get a white Christmas or something?

I daresay our dainty little high-pressure piezo-electric(?) injectors wouldn't take well to either heating oil, crystals or solid wax.

At least we don't have engine heaters to connect. I remember my Dad's old E30 BMW manual talking about plugging your vehicle in overnight to prevent the diesel (or oil) solidifying. And/Or putting approx 20% ethanol in the fuel.

But then again, given it's already been to -4.8C just past midnight in Canberra tonight (Sun am) and our Fozzie is outside cold-soaking with April-spec diesel in it, perhaps I'll wish I had.

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:44 pm

Speaking of cold, is anyone getting their Diesels idling at about 1000rpm until full temperature is reached.

I have noticed my OB has started idling at 1000rpm since the cold weather has arrived.

subdiesel · Post by **subdiesel** » Sun May 15, 2011 5:40 pm

Normal. ECU calculates idle up target engine speed, mostly driven by temp.
Lower temp --> more rpms.
Should gradually decrease to standard 800 (EU at least) as engine warms up.

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:26 am

skipalami wrote:Speaking of cold, is anyone getting their Diesels idling at about 1000rpm until full temperature is reached.

Yes. But I think it backs it off gradually as the temp rises. It's not as bad as our Mazda3- that will 'idle' (should be race) between 2 and 2.5k rpm around 0C.

P.S. after the cold-soak (almost -7C last night), I let my wife take the car- no problems reported.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:13 pm

Mon 04:40 EST
NNW 7 9 -5.6 -6.3 -9.2 95 1 Low - 1029.8

You left your new car out in that! BRRR!!!!

-5.6C (22F) is temp,-6.3C (~20F) is dew point and the -9.2C (15F) is the feels like!

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Fri May 20, 2011 9:37 am

Oh well, here we are three weeks down track and still no glowplugs or fuse for the ECS / ABS.

Just rang the service centre and they are still waiting and also offered a polite no comment at this stage on the drive line shudder.

Time for another email to Subaru, not to have a shot at the service centre but to provide constructive feedback about how Subaru are being far too smart for their own good by using components as simple as a fuse that can only be replaced by OEM.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri May 20, 2011 1:28 pm

Finding same OEM replacement with things like wedge globes for Mazda interior glow, tiny things with red condom on it - $16. Wiper bades $23 each

OBD2230 · Post by **OBD2230** » Fri May 20, 2011 4:37 pm

Hi all, just read all 25 pages

My obd is getting it's 1yr service next week

My history: Was freaked out when the first regen happened, sort of worked it out after reading this thread but that was after the 6mth service where i told the service guy ( who seemed to be trained to be no help at all ?? ) about the shudder. I even bought a new air filter thinking it's a diesel and has fuel and compression.

I do the occasional long trip towing a trailer <500kgs, and did a 5000k road trip,NSW, SA and Vic. I may or may not have got it up to 190kph. I also drive on the sand at least once a week, this loads up the engine well and i have no dpf issues at all for 5mths.

I regularly get 5.6 l/100k but when i fill the tank it's more like 5.8 which i'm still stoked with

I'm sure i can feel?? the car starting to block up if i do too many short trips. Conversely i feel it is pulling better during this cold snap ( denser air ? )

Anyway i will still register a formal complaint next week because we all deserve a consistent performing suby

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Fri May 20, 2011 6:39 pm

suthol wrote: Just rang the service centre and they are still waiting and also offered a polite no comment at this stage on the drive line shudder.
replaced by OEM.

They said WHAT!!!

When is Subaru going to learn to stop stonewalling customers and tell them the bloody truth!

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Fri May 20, 2011 8:26 pm

skipalami wrote:They said WHAT!!!

When is Subaru going to learn to stop stonewalling customers and tell them the bloody truth!

The words were something to the effect of, we may have more information for you when the parts come in.

A much better response would have been, Subaru are aware of the problem and are working to find a solution.

Anyway, nought to do but wait and fume.

I did send another email to Subaru Australia and was a bit more blunt this time and put a bit of emphasis on the fact that something as simple as a fuse that controlled vital safety items ( ECS & ABS I hate with a passion anyway ) is a propriety item that cannot be sourced for the local reputable parts shop.

Another point I am not happy about is the fact that you and I can no longer do a simple engine oil change without the ability to reset the DPF ECU.

I am as green as the next sensible bloke but this is absolute BS of the highest order.

theconcierge · Post by **theconcierge** » Fri May 20, 2011 11:17 pm

I don't know what a glowplug is ( I haven't read the thread as I don't own a forster ) all I know is that my dealer was pulling them out of new cars as they can't get them in or something

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat May 21, 2011 2:04 am

Diesels are compression ignition and self ignite with ratios like 22:1 at or near top dead centre. So, no spark plugs like petrol engines. when a diesel has not been started for more than a few hours and in colder weather need some help to fire up. Jump in a Diesel , turn key to ign on see a glow plug symbol light up on dash, see it go out with a relay click at same time, turn key to start. These plugs glow orange hot when working correctly and screw into combustion chamber

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:05 am

There is a way to change oil and reset dilution counter. Geoff from GTautomotiveservices knows how and have sent me emails to discuss this. I am certain he's willing to help but without his consent do not want to post his advice. There is a sequence of button presses etc... for period of time, it can be done without special tools....Geoff posted a comment on one of the shudder or dpf threads on this forum...

Doubtback · Post by **Doubtback** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:09 pm

Shudder Update - I had reason to go into Subaru last week as one ignition key died (as in wouldn't lock/unlock the vehicle - Dick Smith tested the key battery and said it was dead) however, the replacement battery didn't fix the problem. So off to Subaru who said a few keys have been dieing lately - so they replaced the insides to fix it up. Anyway, whilst I was there I brought up the shudder issue again (5th time I think) - it is a new service manager and he promised to call me back yesterday (every time they'd promised previously they never did so I had no reason to believe him either !) But to his credit he DID call back yesterday and said he'd spoken to Subaru and they want to do a relearn on the vehicle (whatever that is) - I told him Subaru knew about the shudder issue but he didn't let on that they did. The good thing is, he drives a diesel outback so all I can hope is that he gets the issue in a big way ! At least they're listening to me now which is one step forward - at least they seem to have a service manager who does listen. By the way, does anyone know how to lock the rear tailgate without a working remote ?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue May 24, 2011 3:29 pm

theconcierge wrote:I don't know what a glowplug is ( I haven't read the thread as I don't own a forster ) all I know is that my dealer was pulling them out of new cars as they can't get them in or something

Why are they playing with glow plugs, they arent really needed once the engine is up to operating temperature

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue May 24, 2011 5:53 pm

Suparoo wrote:Why are they playing with glow plugs, they arent really needed once the engine is up to operating temperature

A very good point.

I would have thought this engine have doesn't glowplugs, being a common rail direct injection diesel.

theconcierge · Post by **theconcierge** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:09 pm

Suparoo wrote:Why are they playing with glow plugs, they arent really needed once the engine is up to operating temperature

Well I was talking the the dealer and they had three brand new foresters in the workshop that I saw them pushing around. When I asked what was wrong, he explained that they had been cars had been taken from the showroom and had there glowplugs removed so they could be fitted to customers cars and they were doing this because they we unable to get replacements at this point in time.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:18 pm

We are getting off topic, but I can't see how a glowplug fault causes this shudder.

If they do have glowplugs, they would be off within the first minute after a cold start.

Maybe the dealer means some other part (injectors or ecu).