XV test drive

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed May 02, 2012 9:08 am

Well that dim view often comes from peoplw who've been working on cars for a long time and they get to know rubbish when they see it .
Another example of this disconnect I speak of is people who don't work on things and have no real technical training , they often don't see the grief that the manufacturers serve up because they're often not the ones up to the armpits in its oil and grease . They do get to see things that are well thought out and straightforward to work on , which would you rather have and which are you going to take a dim view of ?
Generally mechanical/hydraulic/pneumatic/electrical systems can be worked on as in sub assemblies removed and recoed or replaced . Electronics not so much because often the black boxes are often sealed throw aways and only available at considerable cost from the vehicles manufacturer .
Often with electronics there is no warning of trouble and when they fail you just stop .
I don't have a problem with things like EFI systems and they are mostly very reliable if maintained properly . I'm not so keen on networks of computers in cars all set to run 101 things because if one slips up it can screw everything up . PCMs seem to do everything these days and if things act up good luck trying to get to the bottom of it without back to base genuine diagnostic equipment .
Let me leave you with this . You decide to go many hundreds of km out into the Mulga and you have the choice of say a Brumby or L or a first gen Lib , all have reasonably basic systems and can with a bit of learning be worked on enough to get out of trouble . But no you wheel out the Tribeca and sail out into the dust knowing that it will be cool and quiet and insulate you from just about everything . If and when the dash lights come on and the engine dies do you think you have any chance of getting it going again ?
Provided its not a major mechanical failing the Brumby should roar back to life out of my two shoe boxes of spares and highly likely the EFI L if you take the right bits . The Libs getting a bit harder but if its a basic one stlll doable to a degree . The Tribeca or diesel Lib ? Very likely lift the lid scratch the head and call for mobile help .

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:09 am

I wonder what chance there is of getting back on topic and discussing the XV...remember? lol

This doom n gloom of anything new is getting a bit boring

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:23 am

Ok . I did glance at an XV parked next to a new std issue Impreza I think at the Subaru dealer on the Hume Hwy Chullora .
Would I be right in thinking XVs are basically a Jacked up current model Impreza with model specific wheels ?
I wonder if in a few years time you could fit aftermarket XV suspension with whichever took your fancy wheels and get the same thing without paying XV tax .
It may even be worth considering a larger engined car if they exist because 2000cc isn't much for the weight of the things .

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:38 am

discopotato03 wrote:Ok . I did glance at an XV parked next to a new std issue Impreza I think at the Subaru dealer on the Hume Hwy Chullora .
Would I be right in thinking XVs are basically a Jacked up current model Impreza with model specific wheels ?
I wonder if in a few years time you could fit aftermarket XV suspension with whichever took your fancy wheels and get the same thing without paying XV tax .
It may even be worth considering a larger engined car if they exist because 2000cc isn't much for the weight of the things .

yep just a jacked up impreza. isnt realy a whole new model, much like the previous impreza XV. i went and sat in one the other week and one thing i noticed is that the boot is small, and the cover for the spare wheel is VERY cheap and was my only complaint. otherwise seems a very nice car.

also thoes wheels, while they look good they will become very scratched if going offroad

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:43 am

I'm not interested personally but whats the pricing like with XVs and the mid range Impreza roadie . For some its handy that Subaru made this XV thing because doing the same thing to the normal car should have all the factory compliance - so long as there are no structural differences .
And also what engine options are available in the current Impreza .

I'm really not sure what options base model Imprezas miss out on but if it means less electronic geewizzardry - the things that are annoying anyway building up a base model car could have its advantages .

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:06 am

the only engine options is the new FB20 the new 2.0liter engine with either 6sp manual or CVT transmission

78sti · Post by **78sti** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:19 pm

You seem to be very anti electronic things so I would put my 2 cents in.
having owned several early generation subarus and newer ones and I couldn't disagree more!
Yes you do need to carry a big box of spares when driving an older subaru as they tend to break down a lot more!
As black boxes as you call them are solid state (no moving parts) the tend to be much more reliable the the older moving parts they replaced.
Also on most newer cars when an electronic system not working does not affect the rest of the electronic systems other than the light on the dash!
My h6 outback has had the ecus for the abs, vdc and traction control disabled and everything else works fine. Even the air bag system was not working for a while and it does not affect anything else! (this car was a repaired write off and I did not fix this things due to the cost of replacing the sensors)
It would be interesting to see how many people have had carby's or dizzys rebuilt on earlier subarus or replaced compared to how many people have had ecu's fail (other than drowning).
I am also sure a newer generation farmer with a simple and cheap obd2 code reader would find it much easier to diagnose a fault than the old trial and error way.

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Thu May 03, 2012 12:51 pm

78sti wrote:You seem to be very anti electronic things so I would put my 2 cents in.
having owned several early generation subarus and newer ones and I couldn't disagree more!
Yes you do need to carry a big box of spares when driving an older subaru as they tend to break down a lot more!
As black boxes as you call them are solid state (no moving parts) the tend to be much more reliable the the older moving parts they replaced.
Also on most newer cars when an electronic system not working does not affect the rest of the electronic systems other than the light on the dash!
My h6 outback has had the ecus for the abs, vdc and traction control disabled and everything else works fine. Even the air bag system was not working for a while and it does not affect anything else! (this car was a repaired write off and I did not fix this things due to the cost of replacing the sensors)
It would be interesting to see how many people have had carby's or dizzys rebuilt on earlier subarus or replaced compared to how many people have had ecu's fail (other than drowning).
I am also sure a newer generation farmer with a simple and cheap obd2 code reader would find it much easier to diagnose a fault than the old trial and error way.

your not wrong

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu May 03, 2012 2:41 pm

Well you would be wrong , I an NOT against every electronic devise . What I am against is the legislation forcing some forms of automotive electronics on us that were once optional .
Also to be on the right side of the law all these things must be functional as in operating as the manufacturer intended . I don't agree with it but technically that makes you a criminal .
Again as mentioned elsewhere when I bought my 96 R33 Skyline 6 or 7 years ago ABS was optional and I held out for one that didn't have it . My reasons were I don't like things I don't have control over and also the ABS unit in an R33 with its sea of brake lines is right above and behind the turbocharger making things difficult to get at . I hate this argument because people don't want to know but my Skyline has far and away MUCH better wheels/tyres/suspension than Nissan fitted (no bling Jap coilovers in case you were wondering) so it goes where its pointed and its very difficult to lock the brakes . My Evolution 6 Lancer has ABS Airbags and a fancy electronic/hydraulic torque split rear diff . The RS version has no ABS/no bags/clutch rear LSD - actually manual windows no sound/heater/air con . Would have suited me better being one hundred kg lighter so faster and more agile . Australian law won't let me recreate RS specs even though RSs have compliance and can be legally registered in Australia . Go figure .
The electronics as I've said elswhere I don't like is the lack of choice with things like ABS Airbags and ASC .
No problems with EFI as long as its properly designed and implemented , this means moronic things like fuel pumps and filters fitted to tanks you have to remove to get at join the hate files . It doesn't mean I hate EFI - just systems not designed to be serviced easily .

Black boxes , they can and do fail and you mostly won't know when its coming . It doesn't have to be the ECU/PCM , can be something like a fly by wire TPS , can be electrical surge or any one of a hundred reasons . How often do you read about factory recalls that involve some electronic module that wasn't quite right ?
Later Commodes , if the battery voltage is a bit low they don't even attempt to crank . A normal car cranks slower and slower till the starter solenoid rattles and we all know what that means . A feller I worked with had this happen and could not work out easily why sometimes it'd fire up fine and other times - nothing . PCM is set up so that below a certain voltage - not even going to try but all the normal dash lights work and headlights - even the radio ! That car like most of them is an auto so alternate "cranking" methods are useless .

My comments about the two boxes of MY/L bits are aimed at getting to Perth from the east coast and being able to fix anythink likely to play up . Because they have more basic systems they are much simpler to fault find with simple tools . You might throw an ABD11 scan tool in the glove box of a later car and it may tell you which bits shot but knowing and being able to keep it going are two different things .
This is obviously more important if you go way out into the never never , but if you do good luck finding a dealer to fix any ills along the way .
The day it spits some "vital" chip is the day some cocky in a Brumby or old Tojo will save your bacon . They drive those old reliables for a reason .

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Why are all the Subaru new car yards got an orange XV?

crap colour maybe? they got that colour bulk?

As for you views on modern stuff (in general) discopotato 03...I tend to agree. So at what point did the reliability/function of a motor vehicle take a down turn??

Had a Peugeot 504 TI rare fuel injection model (1974 model). It had a kuggelfisher german designed injection system. Great in their day and delivered more power and economy than the carb model. Its injection system was dependant on vacuum. Mine had a vacuum leak...and there were so many tubes and fitting that were dependant on a 100% seal that I gave up and sold the car. in the end it was getting 10 mpg!!

Enter the 1980's. I can recall the VK commodore, the car that you wouldnt use to jump start another car. it would fry the electronics. anti pollution laws meant the strangling of engines previously with adequate power and economy. Holen gave up and in 1986 went the way of a Nissan 6 cyl engine- wise move.

beyond that I know little except that simplicity went out the window.

A prime exampkle of this (beware I might not know what I'm talking about because I'm no Subie expert) is the ea81 to ea82 move. OHC's brought a timing belt with it. This move away from simplicity for how many hp? And I'll give a better example.

The Escort twin cam. I owned 2 and ran the Escort twin cam car club. It was powered by a Lotus 1558cc twin OHC engine with twin weber side drafts. it snuck under the 1600cc class of racing them days. My late brother purchased a escort mark 1 2000cc single OHC model new. It had a single twin throat carb. It beat my escort hands down. But it was me that had his head under the bonnet all the time with tuning, cam chains and the horror of shim replacement to adjust the valves.

My point is that ECU's, timing belts, EFI etc...there was a better time, a time when cars had all this stuff of efficiency but without the risk of losing your life through a breakdown on an outback track. It was around the late 1980's period.

Just my view. Hoping manufacturers realise this and bring out a 4WD that is not as advanced with all the good stuff. Either that or they advance their tecknology to allow for a limp home ability for all the possibile things that can go wrong.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:55 pm

So XVs are a lifted Impreza...cool. Might be fun to mix n match lol.

Have seen a few of those orange XVs...not a fan! lol

I've heard that the FB20 is pretty good, but yeah I think a 2.5 would have been better, at least as an option

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:23 pm

Yes something with some torque and particularly low down , very politically incorrect with todays engines , would be good considering the weight they are expected to drag around .
It remains to be seen how F20 engines will perform in the real world though its pretty obvious what the story will be in anything heavy .

As for getting an honest reliable vehicle based on tried and proven technology forget it . Big Brother knows most of you are drug crazed alcohol swilling over fatigued skill setless morons who couldn't drive your finger up your grass . He has to protect you from yourselves and no you can't be relied upon to make rational choices in the features of your own paid for motor vehicles .

Feel insulted ? You should but don't flame me because I'm not the one doing it to you .

A .

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:23 pm

I looked up the FB25 engines in the new foresters and compared them to the FB20 in the XV and they have exactly the same torque?? And the 2.5 only has 15KW more power??? And the 2.5 uses something like 2.5l/100 more on fuel??!

If these numbers are right the 2.5 FB is a HUGE dissapointment.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:29 pm

I find that a little hard to believe, was it possibly a typo?

Davidov wrote:I looked up the FB25 engines in the new foresters and compared them to the FB20 in the XV and they have exactly the same torque?? And the 2.5 only has 15KW more power??? And the 2.5 uses something like 2.5l/100 more on fuel??!

If these numbers are right the 2.5 FB is a HUGE dissapointment.

Dikman · Post by **Dikman** » Wed May 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Well, it seems I'll be getting my new car next week (instead of waiting for one to come from Japan next month or so). 'Twould appear that the dealer had two allocated for a fleet buyer, who then said they only wanted one! The salesman asked me if I would like it (Ice Silver "S" model, which happens to be what we wanted). Silly question

.

Now I've just got to figure out how to get a workshop manual for it. Might try ebay, methinks.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Dikman wrote:Well, it seems I'll be getting my new car next week (instead of waiting for one to come from Japan next month or so). 'Twould appear that the dealer had two allocated for a fleet buyer, who then said they only wanted one! The salesman asked me if I would like it (Ice Silver "S" model, which happens to be what we wanted). Silly question .

Be sure to post photos when you've got it

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat May 19, 2012 10:00 pm

I've seen an XV on the road, same car twice in 2 days and it was silver, maybe Ice Silver?

From the passing glances I got of it they look pretty neat, not overly huge like some 4WD's out there.

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Sun May 20, 2012 10:17 am

i soar 2 yesty both were white. doesnt look as rediculous in white compared to the orange. looks like a grood car. i do like the front door windows, as there is a 2 piece class instead of 1

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu May 24, 2012 3:47 pm

So far I've seen the orange, white, silver, maroon/burgandy XVs. There's one that's living up at hotham now and will be here through the season too, one of the locals owns it.

Cheers

Bennie

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:55 am

do you work at hotham bennie? you seem to spend alot of time there...