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Okay, I wasn't sure where else to ask this so I thought I would try here. I hope nobody minds.
And I will just apologise in advance for such a long post.


I need advice...


A few weeks ago, my partner and I drove past a Subary Liberty 1995 that was for sale. We liked the look of it, so we called the owner (who lives in Perth, but the car was out the front of her mother's house) and asked her about it. She told us there was absolutely nothing wrong with it except a hole in the muffler.

We took it for a test drive, and the muffler was extrememly loud, but other than that my partner, Daniel, didn't notice anything wrong with it.
We talked the owner down to $4000 (from $4,700).

The owner told us that her RWC had expired in January, but it would be simple enough to get a new one as the car hadn't been driven much since then so nothing had changed.
She asked us if we would get it done, as she lives in Perth, and we agreed- our first mistake, but she seemed trustworthy...

My partner told her that the muffler needed to be fixed first in order to get a RWC, and we offered to get it done.
We transferred $4000 to her bank account.

The next day we picked up the car from her mother's house and took it straight to the mechanic to fix the muffler hole.
As we were driving back to the mother's house (the owner had requested we drop the car back until the money had cleared) my partner noticed a whiney grindy sound from the transmission that he could obviously hear now that the muffler wasn't blaringly loud anymore.
When we dropped the car back, we told the mother that we believe there is something wrong with the transmission and that we do not want to complete the sale until we know exactly what it is.

We called the owner and told her about it that night. She was pissed off and thought that we were trying to trick her, but she agreed to get her mother to take it to the mechanic the next day to get it checked.

The owner called us back the next day and explained that the mechanic said "there were 4 bolts missing from the transmission mount" which was causing the sound. Supposedly he fixed it and said there was nothing else wrong with the car. We don't trust the mechanic, and believe it was perhaps a friend of theirs.

That night, my partner went to the mother's house and went for a drive with her in the car (she drove). He could still hear the sound clear as ever, but the mother told him "that's just the Subaru sound".

My partner called his mechanic friend who works for Subaru, who said "any kind of whiney grindy sound in any car coming from the transmission is not good and means there's something not right".

That night we called the owner. She did not answer, so we left a voicemail message stating that we believe there is something definitely wrong with the car and we would like our money refunded.

We did not hear from her for 2 days and she did not return any calls or texts.
We drove past the car the next day and her mother had put up new larger FOR SALE signs on the car. We assumed this meant she had accepted to refund our money (as she was obviously trying to resell the car).

The owner finally called us back this morning, very angry, saying that she has spoken to her lawyer and looked up her rights and as far as she is concerned the sale is final and she will not be refunding our money.
I asked her why she had put up new FOR SALE signs on the car, and she replied with "you have no proof of that".
We were 1/2 hour away from where her car is, but we raced there to try and get photographic evidence of the FOR SALE signs, but by the time we got there they were already taken down.

We saw the police and they told us it was a civil matter and we would need to speak to our lawyers and take her to court.

Another point which I think is quite important, is that WE HAVE NOT SIGNED ANYTHING. Not a single thing. Not transfer papers, not a contract, nothing.
And we also DO NOT have the car in our posession. We never took it into our posession except when we took it to the mechanic to get the muffler fixed. It is still sitting out the front of the mother's house.


So here is where we are stuck...
We desperately want our money back so we can buy a car that isn't wrecked, but if we wait to take her to court it could take months before we see our money, plus after the court/lawyer costs it may not even be worth it after all.


Any advice? Ideas? What are our rights? Is there any way we can get our money from her now?
Can the fact that she sold us a car WITH rego and plates but WITHOUT a RWC help us in any way? (I know it's not allowed).


Any help would be much appreciated

Critical point is, where are the registration papers? Whose name are they in? I'm guessing the vendor.

At this point you have given someone $4k, with 0 documentation, no receipt, no deposit slip nothing. You have formed an oral contract, and now you have changed your mind.

The fact the car is in poor condition is not the owner's responsibility - it is yours to assess the car before purchase. It seems she has not deliberately deceived you, all the faults you mention could have been picked up by a pre-sale inspection, again, your responsibility

Police are right, see a lawyer but I would very POLITELY see her, ask for a refund, and maybe conceded some funds as goodwill for wasting the vendor's time.

i have heard that you can go to the bank and explain the money was deeposited in error and get money out if it has not been removed already. you need receipt you got when you put money in ...have heard that is all

steptoe wrote:i have heard that you can go to the bank and explain the money was deeposited in error and get money out if it has not been removed already. you need receipt you got when you put money in ...have heard that is all

Ouch not good..
Yes I agree go to the bank and get the money back asap but it may take longer than what you think.
Cheers
AP

Good luck with that, I dont see the bank removing money from an account with out alot of checking and follow up with the account holder. You have haggled down the price by $700. Paid money into the bank and have an oral contract. Sven is on the right path with speaking with the owner and maybe concede some monetary funds to maybe get out of the deal. At the end of the day it is still pretty much buyer beware especially after you have been given access to the vehicle to perform your own tests etc on the vehicle and then gone out to get a RWC for the owner rather than a pre sale inspection report for yourself.. Hope it works out.

Given it was a verbal agreement with no receipt, your chances of getting the money back is pretty slim

Your best bet is get your mechanic to find out what is making the noise and get it fixed.
If your lucky, its just a wheel bearing = cheap fix
It could also be the clutch thrust bearing, which is also reasonably cheap to fix
Worst case it is the transmission, which at most will cost less than the $700 you saved on the purchase price of the car.

Do you have any heavy weight 'friends' ?
You dont have to threaten - but 'back up' when asking for refund may just help you win your cash back.
Best of luck.

1111giles wrote:Do you have any heavy weight 'friends' ?
You dont have to threaten - but 'back up' when asking for refund may just help you win your cash back.
Best of luck.

And blow any chance of recovering the $4k...

steptoe wrote:i have heard that you can go to the bank and explain the money was deeposited in error and get money out if it has not been removed already. you need receipt you got when you put money in ...have heard that is all

No chance I'm afraid. Cannot 'stop cheque' on transfers like this without the vendor's co-operation. And for $4k, banks would not bother

rude if for sale signs went back up, did exhaust noise come back too ? Car is not in your possession either?

what is her address in Western Australia Im sure a ninja team can be assembled and 4000 dollars worth of her property can be held until this is sorted out.

but seriously

it is difficult to establish a claim of ownership without documents bearing a signature from either of the participants in the sale.

having said that you have transfered 4000 dollars to her account which can be proved and sadly the only way you can prove you have been wronged is in a civil court of law

TOONGA

Just pick it up get it fixed & put it down to a bad experience, it's not worth the stress & 2nd hand transmissions are pretty cheap if you ask around the forums, but I'd be making sure you get the car once the cheque is cleared and all paper work asap before it disappears.

Bet a six pack of sweet sweet Coopers Pale Ale the OP's post count does not exceed one (1)

Hey Steptoe, re your signature, 'surely the prostate could have been placed in a more palpable spot like next to the appendic'

BTW the way, appendix diagnosis includes a digital exam (ie surgeon's finger up one's anoose) as the appendix when inflamed can be felt in this manner...

How long is your surgeons finger?

steptoe wrote:rude if for sale signs went back up, did exhaust noise come back too ? Car is not in your possession either?

The exhaust was fixed. It was silent so we able to hear transmission noise. It sounded half way between a stuffed wheel bearing and the whine of a diff about to let go.

And no, the car is not in our possession. And in fact today we drove past it and saw the owner's mother hopping in it and taking it for a drive.

today tonight??

they really do get shit done!!

I was down the wreckers and the TT mob came to get the guy just down the road, was a full on punsh up and now the guys losing buisness left right and center


id say take the car, with a new tranny in it, im sure somone here will gladly try to hook you up with one the car will be a dream. and better yet take it for a test drive though maccas and get the seller to pay =)

spike wrote:today tonight??

they really do get shit done!!

I was down the wreckers and the TT mob came to get the guy just down the road, was a full on punsh up and now the guys losing buisness left right and center

You mean for the vendor Spike?!

LauraElyse wrote:The exhaust was fixed. It was silent so we able to hear transmission noise. It sounded half way between a stuffed wheel bearing and the whine of a diff about to let go.
.

Your responsibility to asses the car properly!

So far as a 'test drive' pick it up - is your car!

Couple of things here:-

(1) As a past Queensland Police Sergeant, yes its a civil matter. Sounds like a cop out (pun) but yes, its a civil dispute.

(2) You have entered into a contract to purchase, even if it is only verbal but then you have completed that transaction by forwarding the money. The sale is complete.

Options. Take the car and get the tranny fixed. The car mustn't be too bad as you liked it when you saw it. Grab the property or risk losing the $4K and have no car to show for it. Get a receipt too..

Or...Take them to the small claims tribunal. Lot of stuffing around with no gurantees, start the process by speaking with people from legal aid. Check your local phone book. There should be legal advice and assistance for people on low income in your state, Victoria. No aspersions intended.

Good luck with it...and remember as they say, 'Buyer beware." A lesson here for all of us.