Stop everything! Different hub offsets?

[Silverbullet]

A strange thing has happened which has made me question everything about MY wheel offsets, I mean when people ask if this or that wheel will stick outside the guards on their Brumby. Read on...

I got some 14" Speedy desert rats powdercoated, and new tyres put on them to go on the Brumby. I'd read everywhere that these will most likely stick outside the guards and when I test fitted them with the old crappy tires (195/65/R14) they did stick out a little bit. So I bought the smallest rubber fender flare expecting to need it. So imagine my surprise when I fitted all the wheels up (with 185/60/R14 tires) and none of them stuck out! Except one...

Yes one wheel! Front left sticks out a good 20mm when all the others are perfectly flush with the guard. At first I thought the wheel was different because I got 5 wheels done up, 4 were off an MY wagon I found at a scrap yard, the 5th was one of two I pulled from an L series. Just my luck I thought, the L series one must be different even though I thought I checked them all. So I swapped some wheels over and no matter what that one always sticks out, so the wheels are all the same. Which can only mean that side of the suspension is different to the other side! This is a 1984 Brum by the way.

Then I remembered; months and months ago when I was chasing clicking/grinding noises with new drive shafts, in desperation I swapped the steering knuckle (and hub I think) on the side that was making the noise (drivers side) with some donor parts of my 1981 wagon. This is the only explanation I can think of for why the passenger side wheel sticks out so far now; there must be a difference in offset between year models of the same car! Or maybe even differences between wagons and utes...I dunno.

All I know is, I have a 1984 ute steering knuckle and hub on the passenger side, 1981 wagon knuckle/hub on the drivers side, and the Speedy wheel is sticking out a mile on the 1984 side...

Anyone care to enlighten me on this one?

[steptoe]

My ute is complianced as 10/84 and due to the DB426 pads in use - it must be an MY85. Does not have this issue of asymmetry with any of the rims fitted over 13, 14 and 15 inch range. Maybe you measure from outside of 'chassis' rail to the rim mating face of the hub each side ?

[Silverbullet]

Maybe you measure from outside of 'chassis' rail to the rim mating face of the hub each side ?

Going to have to I think. This adds another level of complexity to the newbie question; "Will these rims fit on my Brumby?"

[taza]

Weird! Must be different... nothings bent? Not an L-Series control arm?

[steptoe]

you ran this beast in the family for 30 years and never had a wheel drama ? Maybe that side shrunk in the painters oven ?

[Silverbullet]

Nothing bent, definitely no lonely L series LCA

Jonno, we had 30 years drama free in the wagon because it had both hubs from the same car, from the factory for 30 years. Plus it only ever had standard steelies on it. Now on the ute I have one of those 1981 wagon knuckles/hubs on one side, and one 1984 ute knuckle/hub on the other side, seemingly causing a problem.

Well since I'm not using the MY steering knuckles on the wagon anymore, I'll try and find time to swap the other one into the passenger side on the ute and see if it fixes my problem! Christmas break is only 3 working days away

[Bantum]

While you have them both out - take some pictures of them side by side for comparison, would be interested to see if there's any differences ...

Cheers, Bantum ...

[taza]

+1, very interested to know whats going on

[AndrewT]

Yeah compare the two parts together...

[Silverbullet]

I got around to swapping the steering knuckles just now and well, in short it made no difference But on the plus side I have now replaced the wheel bearings in 3 corners of this car in the last 6 months
So it is not the steering knuckle pushing the wheel out...so what is?? the only thing left that might be different between the 2 sides is the splined hub but I can't swap them over just yet. When I get all the L series gear into the front end of my wagon (soon/this week) I can put the 1981 MY hub on the Brumby and see if the difference is there. If it still sticks out after that well stuff it, it can stay sticking out.

By the way, keep in mind I have swapped wheels around as well and they're all Speedy desert rats, so difference can't be there...

Pics below:

Here is the driver side, tyre nice and flush with the guard just like the 2 rear wheels:

Passenger side before today:

And with the new steering knuckle, little if any difference:



I did take pics of the two parts together but since there was no difference there isn't much point posting them up.

[Bantum]

Um - Has the engine cross member moved ? ( the control arms are attached to it )

You could try shifting the engine cross member back by loosening all the mounting hardware & pull it to the other side ( measure before & after ) + use a hydraulic jack to go slowly - see if that makes any difference. Will need to check for alignment also ...

Don't forget to tighten every thing up again ...

Cheers, Bantum ...

[Subydoug]

It could just be the fender SB. I would do as Jonno mentioned and measure some points across the car.

Regards

Doug

[sublime]

No sure there is a problem, on both my 1974 sedan and 1978 wagon the left rim/tyre sticks out more than the right (about 10mm or so). I always assumed this was merely a result of the camber adjustments needed to compensate for our left leaning roads and to keep the car going straight. I am sure the USA would have the right stick out a little more!

It only becomes noticeable when you fit wider rims and/or tyres.

[Silverbullet]

It could just be the fender SB. I would do as Jonno mentioned and measure some points across the car.

Regards

Doug

I must do that, maybe my fender has been squashed in or the other one pulled out at some point

No sure there is a problem, on both my 1974 sedan and 1978 wagon the left rim/tyre sticks our more than the right (about 10mm or so). I always assumed this was merely a result of the camber adjustments needed to compensate for our left leaning roads and to keep the car going straight. I am sure the USA would have the right stick out a little more!

It only becomes noticeable when you fit wider rims and/or tyres.

That is interesting, could it be the same story on the later MY models? And if this was true wouldn't the rear end stick out more on that side as well?

[sven '2']

I think you mentioned you swapped the Speedy Desert Rats about - they had pretty poor build quality back in the day, something there maybe?

[Proton mouse]

Could there be a difference in the thickness of the disk splined boss somehow from older to no so older? The part where the wheel surface mates to the disk??
John

[RSR 555]

I'd say the engine crossmember is not in the centre and/or the guard is out. From memory, all Desert Rats stuck out only on the L.Series, not MY Series. Which means the LH guard maybe pushed in or non genuine?

[Phizinza]

There is two different offset 14" Speedy Desert Rats, but this isn't the issue as his tried swapping the wheels with same results.

I had the same issue with my old Brumby, left front stuck out around 20mm more than the right side. Never figured it out, just assumed the car was manufactured that way. 80's jap tolerances.

My new brumby is the same on both sides.