Coil on plug?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:39 pm

Anyone looked into coil on plugs conversion. eg weapon

Just wondering....don't get excited lol

Post by **Bantum** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:18 am

You mean make it like a 'taser' ? ...

Bantum ...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:33 am

showthread.php?t=18929

read this first ^^^^^

somewhere on the net is at least one forum of where peeps have fitted , maybe not direct coil on plug but coil per plug on stuff like our old distributor run cars - lotsa old English cars

Post by **Bantum** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:40 pm

Ah - you meant EDIS = Electronic Distributorless Ignition System.

Sorry when I saw 'weapon' thought of something else, bad choice of word ...

Cheers, Bantum ...

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:38 pm

Programmable ignition has been the best all round improvement to my engine. Good gains down low and mid range. I imagine if I got it dyno tuned then the top end would be better as well.

No need for COP, I would stick to wasted spark. Simpler and as far as our engines are concerned no difference in performance at all.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:49 pm

Read that thread Steptoe. thanks. good education

So , programmable ignition is a future consideration. Is there a kit or can an ignition specialist make one up?

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:57 pm

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

Megasquirt/Megajolt is the "kit" I know of, I'm sure there must be others. I think Doug made his own?

Tony, has this line of thought stemmed from the discussion in your other thread about the EA81 manifold adapters?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:47 pm

Thanks Steptoe...read that link start to finish.

The system was weaponX. but auto correct stopped the X from showing on my initial post guys.

http://www.weaponxperformance.com/ignit ... index.html

Silverbullet, I'm in love with my EA81. Now that I have it fully rebuilt I'm content however I'm not closed to the idea of gradual development for a few more ponies. I have that auto trans that takes 20hp. The 38/38 for example was a gamble that didn't pay off. It's ok, its on ebay now and picked up a very good 32/36. Not much harm done except the $$$ with the dyno and jetting of the 38.

This "experimental phase is more at a close not that I'm a pensioner. So I'm studying all info out there on my engine and am open to all ideas with the proviso that it isn't a gamble as such, that its a proven step to take.

I'm aware Doug made his own wasted spark set up. It's still totally non understanding for me the whole idea and set up, whats required, how complicated etc, cost. I tend to like very much the stock late model Brumby ignition pointless module system. But I also know that a better quality spark will have significant output hp. So yeh, I'm fishing lol

postscript: megasquirt http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d33.html a cool $735 AUD plus postage. I've got a soldering iron and flux.....lol

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:58 am

No I never made my own ignition controller, I wasnt brave enough! My car is using a 36-1 timing ring on the crank pulley. Then my microsquirt ecu is driving the coil packs and doing the timing control.

You can still use a distributor with programmable ignition, a lot of car manufacturers did. It requires locking the mechanical advance and vac advance mechanisms making sure that the rotor button will strike the disty cap peg over the whole timing range (ie 6 to 35 or something similar) then feeding the old timing signal into a brain and have it drive the coil. A lot less mechanical work then fitting a timing ring to the crank pulley but it still has wear parts associated with the disty. It looks stock though.

Regards

Doug

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:13 pm

Thanks Doug,

My hunger for knowledge about my chosen cute little ea81 engine is overflowing with threads like this. It doesn't mean I'll do anything more to my engine though.

In my case it seems clear that the module electronic disty system is ideal for my needs with a spare module in my boot. It is maintenance free, works well for the rev range I'm using, no points (big plus) and its costing me zero.

But as the auto trans suck a considerable hp from the engine I'm always looking at easily installed plug and play mods that have been proven by others that they not only work but they add to the power/torque output.

And finally I'm so over the "just EJ it" answer. I'm sticking with this compact, easy to work on and reliable engine that is under rated in terms of its positives.

The 32/36 carb has made huge leaps of faith in the engine. Performance wise the 38/38 was worse due to it being too big and difficult to tune. The 32/36 is far more economical with power when you want it about 10% of riding time.

A good example of my direction.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:54 am

when one thinks about the cost of a kit - imagining 1500 bucks worth of stuff - it would be cheaper to just EJ something

found this thread when searching distributorless conversions - looking for that forum filled with different 4 pot applications ...

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:00 pm

So maybe all ea81 owners should just EJ it, (just in case they didn't hear me- "EJ IT!!!!" lol

I believe, unless people are flushed with funds, that there comes a point of no return, a fork in the road where you either stay with the ea or go EJ. Once you've made your decision its a given you'd stick with that path.

In my case the custom exhaust alone cost $1500. Adapter $550, then there's the rebuild $2700, weber etc etc. But you Jonno knows why I stuck with the Ea81- ease of maintenance, engine room space, weight issues etc. It's a unique situation with a trike.

I most definitely wont be spending anymore moolah on the engine. This morning we (wife and dog) rode to Euroa 22 kms away and on the flat quickly pushed it to "X" kph. Simply wonderful. On our return up the mountain my wife rode it and stayed on the primary throat of the carb- almost effortless. There is simply no reason to fiddle. But I did ask about COP and its feasibility.

So I still don't think "EJing it" is the bees knees of every situation. There must be many young farmers out there that just want to stick with the EA. If you do....weber it, good exhaust and rebuild with torquey cam, new oil pump, water pump, and maybe ea82/spfi manifold if its easy for you to get one.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:12 pm

Tweety wrote: I believe, unless people are flushed with funds, that there comes a point of no return, a fork in the road where you either stay with the ea or go EJ. Once you've made your decision its a given you'd stick with that path.

Totally agree!

I stuck with the EA in both my cars originally due to legality mainly (SA laws very much against engine swaps) and wiring headaches but these days its more the quirky charm of the thing, and I love their simplicity. Also how easy they are to work on and their compact size as you mentioned. I lucked out and got myself an EA81S which is the best version of that engine and I've spent so much money on the wagon so far I could have "EJ'd it" many times over by now.

If I wanted a modern, smooth powerful EFI engine to bring an old car into the modern era I would go EJ, but at the moment I'm happy tinkering with the old gen stuff

More on the topic of this thread; the thing that lets the EA81 down so much and has given me personally constant grief and lackluster performance is the ignition system. Points or electronic I think they're both rubbish and I'm seriously looking at putting a megajolt EDIS programmable type system in the wagon so I can get the absolute best out of that engine.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:48 pm

Subydoug wrote:No I never made my own ignition controller, I wasnt brave enough! My car is using a 36-1 timing ring on the crank pulley. Then my microsquirt ecu is driving the coil packs and doing the timing control.

You can still use a distributor with programmable ignition, a lot of car manufacturers did. It requires locking the mechanical advance and vac advance mechanisms making sure that the rotor button will strike the disty cap peg over the whole timing range (ie 6 to 35 or something similar) then feeding the old timing signal into a brain and have it drive the coil. A lot less mechanical work then fitting a timing ring to the crank pulley but it still has wear parts associated with the disty. It looks stock though.

Regards

Doug

What engine are you running megasquirt on? are you utilising it just for ignition control or Fuel as well?

Did you attach the trigger wheel? if so;
How?
Did you get the pulley balanced afterwards?
and
Do you notice any vibration?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:21 pm

nncoolg wrote:What engine are you running megasquirt on? are you utilising it just for ignition control or Fuel as well?

Did you attach the trigger wheel? if so;
How?
Did you get the pulley balanced afterwards?
and
Do you notice any vibration?

Dougs got an MY 1984? touring wagon

TOONGA

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:31 pm

See what happen Nev, when you are absent long times ...you miss things !

Gees, where would one go to get a crank pulley balanced after welding a tofed ring to its behind ?

I reckon these EA81s deserve an EDIS conversion thread on how to , where from etc coz to EJ something aint an afternoon walk in the park, yet to add bits to car for an EDIS using common components picked up from your local milk bar and then just switch over to it, and back to dizzy and module if things not sorted - is a way to go.

Would love for a future EDIS to be programmable by phonme ap or sumptin' or at least accessible so if broke down somewhere due to own stupidity, just hail down a motorist with some smart phone if no have own ....download the DougyApp get a bit of remote diagnostics going or even drive the bloody spark control on an old iphone !! Possible ??

30 something years ago a dork* of the neighbourhood ran his Corolla on his home made electronic ignition that still used the points as a switch, just no load on them ...also ran a plug on the side of the ign box that if had troubles with ignition, pull plug out, turn some degrees and back in to go back to loaded points bypass the ebox ignition.

* OK, thought he was a dork with a funny odd wife until I got to know their brilliance

early computer genuisii of the 70's & 80's !

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:37 pm

People in their 80's and 90's now, 30 years ago didn't like the cars of the 80's.

"They're full of plastic" - they had no thought that if all cars were so built they were less likely for injury due to collapsible sections

"They are too light" - they thought the weight of a Ford Customline was a good idea

"They're buzz boxes" - some were (Honda 600 and 800S, Scamp, Z, etc) but they served a purpose. And they saved us fuel money

There was also the dislike of anything Japanese....their memories of the war hadn't been fully erased.

Fast track to today. The biggest problems now is - affordability, ability (inability) to work on it and a big question mark on dependability over the long term.

If any of those 3 issues bother you then old cars are the way to go....somewhere between grandpa's Customline to when computers ruled the land - EJ's in our case. I mean ask any Holden lover...one of the best ever made was the VL 1986 model with the Nissan 3L engine. Economical, powerful and easy to work on. And who doesn't like that body shape?

But as what is pointed out EJing isn't a "walk in the park" and we want walks in parks without the issues that arise down the track (suspension?).

Yet there is a little room to move with the base EA81. Room to improve with minimal complexity, cost and with all the experiments done.

Easy for me to say. My trike weighs 660kgms so the performance is there now along with all the other needs and zero money to play with.

Ejing is still a feasible move for many but a no no for some. I agree though, the ignition is the area that needs an upgrade as long as it is simple and not complex to those that keep with the non complex vehicle in the first place.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:18 pm

I'm sure I can remember seeing some pics of Dougs conversion with his trigger wheel etc etc...damned if I can find it now though

Jonno, you can statically balance a wheel, pulley, propeller for that matter. Just mount it accurately on a snug fit shaft or mandrel, sit that on 2 parallel rails so the wheel is suspended and the heavy side will rotate to the bottom. Remove material or add material to opposite side to balance it. Rinse and repeat many times until the wheel no longer rotates of its own accord i.e you put it in any position and it stays there. Good enough.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:07 am

Gees, Sam, you may need to set up a mail order custom fabricating service while between jobs ! Do it pre- pay so not left in any lurch

. I actually think I understand your explanation as well. Thought of stepping up to teach at tech ?

And, on the stick to simple EA81 - they don't get much chance now being in the thirty year old design arena. Not many in here have done full rebuilds "because they can EJ it for less cost" or so they think ..... I know I have got my performance improvements from both EA81 rebuilds and Tony seems to be more than happy with Tweetys little motivator - and ain't he tried ?!

Just waiting for Sam and his EA81S to prove its worth !!

I do feel confident running about with a pair of flat blade screwdrivers and a spare ignition module

But, also look forward to a day I can stuff an EJ and its AWD box in a Brumby

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