Maximum Airflow "help"

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:42 pm

Looking for advice on how to improve airflow under the bonnet and through the radiator.

Just bought a lifted L series with an EJ22 conversion, it has a liberty radiator and twin David Craig thermos, however it has an overheating problem when towing or in the soft stuff which causes me concern as my driving is 80 per cent bush/beach and 20 per cent road to get to the bush and beach.

Paul (The Wizard) at RSR Performance in Rockingham has my new L series down there at the moment working on it for me on the mechanical side of things, but I am also look at other fixes like bonnet scoops, snorkels and what ever else would maximize my airflow thus keeping my engine as cool as possible.

Any suggestions, trials, errors, ideas and fixes would be great, "pics also handy"

Cheers in advance

WayneO....

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:06 pm

A thermostat that opens at a cooler temp

http://www.mishimoto.com/subaru-racing-thermostats.html

A twin core alloy radiator

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOR-Subaru-L ... 33aae529da

WRX vents in the bonnet

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUBARU-IMPRE ... 1a07613cdd

Sierra vents

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SIERRA-BONNE ... 1792962781

TOONGA

PS. some not so serious modifications

speed holes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_025tF0-LpM

golf ball car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5SlwNf4K0

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:29 pm

TOONGA wrote:A thermostat that opens at a cooler temp

http://www.mishimoto.com/subaru-racing-thermostats.html

A twin core alloy radiator

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOR-Subaru-L ... 33aae529da

WRX vents in the bonnet

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUBARU-IMPRE ... 1a07613cdd

Sierra vents

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SIERRA-BONNE ... 1792962781

TOONGA

PS. some not so serious modifications

speed holes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_025tF0-LpM

golf ball car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5SlwNf4K0

Those Speed holes also reduce wind drag by 70 percent, 80 per cent of the time (Sweet) lol.

Thanks heaps for the Radiator link along with the Thermostat link, this is a gr8 place to start, will try these two options first and then look at the bonnet scoop options.

Cheers WayneO............

Proton mouse · Post by **Proton mouse** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:55 pm

All of the above, especially the speed holes lol

I would run it without a thermostat first, to see if the cooling system is actually able to cope overall (assuming the whole cooling system is not gunked up at present)
Then if not go for the bigger radiator option.
Also, when are the fans kicking in?? The fan thermal switch might be pre set at too high a temperature to be effective.
Also, is it definitely overheating and not just a mismatch from EJ sender to L series temp gauge?
John

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:13 pm

Proton mouse wrote:All of the above, especially the speed holes lol

I would run it without a thermostat first, to see if the cooling system is actually able to cope overall (assuming the whole cooling system is not gunked up at present)
Then if not go for the bigger radiator option.
Also, when are the fans kicking in?? The fan thermal switch might be pre set at too high a temperature to be effective.
Also, is it definitely overheating and not just a mismatch from EJ sender to L series temp gauge?
John

Heya John,

Yeah bought the L without a thermostat in it, so Paul is putting one in today along with genuine Subaru coolant and a new radiator cap, he also gave the radiator and heater core a good flush and advised there was heaps of gunk in there, so all clean now.

The thermo fans have now been removed from the engine side of the radiator (sucking) to the grille side of the radiator (blowing), Paul is also re wiring the secondary thermo for manual overide, I think he said it was in a negative switching so it does not interfere with the computer.

I will check with Paul in regards to the possible mismatch from EJ to L series temp gauge, Cheers for that tip.

Spotties will also be coming off today for better airflow through the grille.

Cheers WayneO...

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:26 pm

On mine, the EJ sender showed lower on the L gauge.

Mine got warm sometimes when worked, fitting covers underneath between the front sill and the cross-member fixed it. Apparently it has something to do with controlling where the air flows and maximises the flow through the radiator.
Like the plastic covers under all the new cars, they are not there just to keep your sump clean.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:51 pm

the waterless coolant stuff ...

a good old dose of cleaner stuff to remove scale and crud rather than just an RSR flush - just had an image conjured up in mind of Paul in a wizard gown

electric water pump and controller is not exactly a low budget thing - tambo - your thoughts ? reckon it may have a place here ?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:39 pm

A few things you can do:

First plug ALL holes in the front rad support panel - behind lights, between rad and panel etc. make sure the blades on the fans are orientated correctly!

Ensure there's no HG issue. Paul will be all over this I'm sure.

Get a gauge that actually shows the temp value rather than relying on a factory gauge that points into space between a "C" and a "H".

Create a bash plate that helps draw air through the radiator, or at least a lip that does the work. This is a bit of trial and error to find out what works.

Enjoy the EJ mate, you'll be like "ea who?" After your first drive!

Also slap on a snorkel just because you can - plus they look wicked as!

Cheers

Bennie

Nubaru · Post by **Nubaru** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:15 am

fans in front of radiator have been expressed as not as efficient as behind. With most modern cars, I am noticing the xit point for air through radiator is limited to the same diameter area as that the fans leave, and shrouding covers the rest, so guess effectively drawing air at speed by fans across entire core not just the one or two circular 'shadows'

You could also try similar at the front and make up side shrouding so air entering gets channeled towards rad and not just to blow all over the front apron

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:59 am

El_Freddo wrote:Ensure there's no HG issue. Paul will be all over this I'm sure.

Yeah quite sure Paul has that one covered.

El_Freddo wrote:Get a gauge that actually shows the temp value rather than relying on a factory gauge that points into space between a "C" and a "H".

Spoke to Doug last night and I am sure he said there was an aftermarket gauge fitted which is great "BUT" at what temps am I looking at compared to cool, normal running, hot and OMG.

El_Freddo wrote:Enjoy the EJ mate, you'll be like "ea who?" After your first drive!

Dunno Bennie I am a die hard EA82 fan, I have never needed the top end speed, my max was 100kmh (I am getting old) and the reliability in the soft stuff at low revs (almost idle) showed you dont need to work the wagons hard.

As for the EA82 overheating I have had only a couple of times where it came close to 3 quarters on the temp gauge, did I mention anywhere how reliable it was, ( "Sighhhhh" I miss my Silver L ):(

I hope my next response after driving the new one (EJ) will be the same as above, I would hate to be a convert and have to eat my words.

The last pic of my Silver EA82 L (Gonna miss ya mate)

El_Freddo wrote:slap on a snorkel just because you can - plus they look wicked as!

Yeah that option may still be on the cards but only after a bonnet scoop goes on, was looking at either the Nissan or Toyota scoop.

Cheers for ur advice and good to chat again.

Cheers WayneO.............

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:51 am

steptoe wrote:the waterless coolant stuff ...

a good old dose of cleaner stuff to remove scale and crud rather than just an RSR flush

What is an RSR flush ???

- just had an image conjured up in mind of Paul in a wizard gown

electric water pump and controller is not exactly a low budget thing - tambo - your thoughts ? reckon it may have a place here ?

I have full faith in Paul as he has never let me down as a Mechanic, I will always drive the 600kms from Kalbarri to Rockingham to have Paul work on my Subi's he gets the job done right the first time every time.

But ur right about the mental image of Paul in a Wizard gown it takes me back to my days as an alter boy LOL

Cheers WayneO...

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:55 pm

Electric water pump is the ideal problem solver, a lot of mucking around to set up properly, then you have to comprehend cavitataion and how it effects the efficiency of your cooling system.
There are so many aluminum L series radiators available these days, they generally fix the hot under load problems, as long as there are no hidden faults, as previously mentioned.
I have a "power flusher" that uses compressed air and water, a good flush, not just with cleaner and a hose, will clear up any rubbish (also shows any possible future leaks)
Heat dissipation with air flow is the simplest method.

If only the L was released with an EJ22 as standard, it would have lived on for years and years...............

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:16 pm

L temp gauge definitely reads lower with the ej sender, was only just getting up over the cold line when the thermo fans kicked in. It was cycling just fine at idle the other day when Paul and I were looking at it. He mentioned that there was a fair bit of crap in the radiator pre flush but I didn't see it myself. It has the standard single core aluminium liberty radiator in it, but its mounted a little bit in-board so to save cutting up the radiator support frame. Makes it a little messy with the radiator hoses. Personally WayneO I would track down an L-series radiator in good condition (or new) and stick that in there, then hit up Paul for one of his new EJ-EA radiator hose adaptor pipes. It would all bolt back in. with a nice stock look and you would easily fit twin thermo fans on the inside then. Other then that WayneO she's a skookum choocher. Pretty tall on the gearing but has the torque to get by. No doubt if your just doing beach stuff you can drop to some 14". Im sure after a few weeks of driving it you will come to your own opinion of what needs doing though.

And to all of you EJ fans....Meh, my old clackerbox ea81 would give it a run for its money! my secret weapon?.....stock tyres.

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:43 pm

Kalbarri_baru wrote:What is an RSR flush ???

not sure meself, did you ask if he used, or had faith in chemical cleaners ?

I have full faith in Paul as he has never let me down as a Mechanic, I will always drive the 600kms from Kalbarri to Rockingham to have Paul work on my Subi's he gets the job done right the first time every time.

But ur right about the mental image of Paul in a Wizard gown it takes me back to my days as an alter boy LOL

My image was a purple cape with gold stars

Cheers WayneO...

The more I read, the more I reckon a watchdog or make your own from ebay stuff is a good idea for any car to get a digital temp read out

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:04 am

N13 Pulsar twin core aluminum radiator will adapt to L series mounts, just need to slightly bend the lip at the top of the support panel to get it to sit forwards.
Hose sizes match EJ.
Twin fans will fit behind, just. Never had then hit, but they sit close.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:06 am

How did you go at resolving the issue? A few points from my experience.
- Best place for the thermo fans is between the radiator and engine, sucking (It even says this in the Davies Craig booklets). That way the fans themselves don't block ambient airflow (the electric motor bit in the middle - air can't get through it!). That being said, I am aware they do work fine on the other side too - people have done it both ways with great results. Just be sure to flip the fan over so it's facing the right direction - this is essential for the Davies Craig fans. Also, it's possible they weren't flipped when first installed. They come setup for the front side of the car by default.
- You shouldn't need any of these whiz-bang modifications to keep the car running at normal temps (bonnet scoops, vents, moving spotties out of the way, electric pump etc). If the car is overheating, there must be an actual problem with the cooling system. An EJ22 converted car should run perfectly fine temperature wise without any special cooling modifications. Check the radiator is in good condition (maybe it needs rodding / flushing to clear it out), check thermostat is working properly, check there are no HG issues etc.
- Is it actually overheating? As people have mentioned, the temp gauge will probably read totally different than you might be used to in your other car. The position it sits and moves up to when working hard might be normal in this case. I'd recommend fitting an extra independent gauge that shows the actual temperature in degrees. Maybe everything is fine.

edit - I'm also sure Paul has covered all of the above. Just posting my experience to add to the thread seeing as you've posted about it.

Jamespaterson · Post by **Jamespaterson** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:22 pm

I'm not sure on a subaru, i haven't had any over heating problems yet on them (fingers crossed).
But i have had success with oil coolers on diesels

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Heya Andrew T,
Yeah normal running is fine but most of my driving is in soft sand within long distances with a tail wind, now my Silver L Series with an EA82 ate the sand and almost never overheated in the same conditions.

I may have solved the problem with a two core radiator and genuine Subaru Coolant, the radiator arrived today so just need it installed.

I have already got an extra independent gauge that shows the actual temperature in degrees, normal running temps are at 80 and I get nervous around the 115 degree mark which does not take long to get to that point in the soft stuff (approx 6kms along the beach).

Going to get a Mechanic to put this radiator in as my old one seems to be held in with cable ties, will keep all posted with new radiator and any overheating issues if any once in.

Cheers

WayneO.................

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:00 pm

Let me know if you come to Perth WayneO....your car will need testing in some sand afterwards

.

Regards

Doug

Kalbarri_baru · Post by **Kalbarri_baru** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:40 am

Heya Doug,
Sounds good just gotta get time and cash together before a Perth trip comes up, but working on it.

Cheers

WayneO...........