EA81 into trike VW automatic

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:44 pm

It has started. Havent picked up my EA81 as yet. It's still in the Brumby. Maybe in a week.

I hope this thread will assist other trike owners with their own conversions. Advice wlecomed even if it isnt taken.

Engine protection bar 4 bolts

Tow bar hinges down with two bolts

Out she comes....trolley helps

Sherman adapter ordered.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:38 pm

Didn't Herman Munster have one of these things?

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:58 pm

d_generate wrote:Didn't Herman Munster have one of these things?

Baha I think he did

Tweety wrote:It has started. Havent picked up my EA81 as yet. It's still in the Brumby. Maybe in a week.

I hope this thread will assist other trike owners with their own conversions. Advice wlecomed even if it isnt taken.

Engine protection bar 4 bolts

Tow bar hinges down with two bolts

Out she comes....trolley helps

Sherman adapter ordered.

Actually looks like a good weekend toy Tweety

Will be much healthier after the transplant

Missus and I reckon we've seen it cruising Griffith NSW in the last couple of years??

all the best with the swop and keep the pictures coming
what kind of weight does that tow bar handle?

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:07 pm

Just a Q if I may...

The T3 transmission - thinking change points etc - do you see any issues with the different torque curves etc?

Not concerned with with trans handling the EA81 'power', but final drive ratio and drivability? (noting that you tow as well)

Very interesting project - I helped a mate install a EA81 in a bus years back.

Sven

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:16 pm

yes we have toured through Young and Griffith a few times. there is another yellow Panther trike housed in Holbrook also.

The auto VW box ratios are little different to the Subaru EA81 1980-1982 model 3 speed auto. final drive are the similar also at around 3.7.

tyres and wheels are a different story.

Leone use tyres 175/70/r13 Trike 275/60/r15 Using a tyre calculator at
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php we get a difference of 19% taller with the trike.

Original tyres on the trike were 295/50/r15 and they would give me 15% taller gearing.

Bearing in mind that the trike revs at 3,200 rpm at 100kph. Advice from aussieveedubber forum suggest two ways of lowering the gearing to make it more comfortable and use less fuel.
1- seek a diff expert to lower the final drive ration to say 3.2:1
2- seek a reverse crown Subaru 4 speed auto box from Subarugears.

second option has issues with the Panther in that it is the onle monocoque chassis trike in Oz. it has a alloy box shaped fuel tank under the dummy tank. As the Subie trans is 140mm longer than the VW type 3 you can only convert it by either modifying the tank (No!) or using longer trailing arms (a future option.)

so I'm at a loss with ratios because considering the above figures the revs should drop dramatically but I know they wont???? My guess is the leone example revs similar to the trike.

Torque curve. with all this info perhaps someone can give us an idea of how the trike will behave, acceleration difference? torque curves? towing difference (400-450kgs) etc The Ea81 will have a new weber 32/36 and new electronic dizzy.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:23 pm

Tow ball weight is max 30 kgms. the tow bar can actually take my weight easily on the ball- 125 kgm (big sucker)

the van weighs tare 380kgms with a loaded weight of 430kgms with a ball weight of only 23 kgms maybe 28 now I've added things.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:41 pm

wonder if anyone spots you ditching a pair of downdraughts for a hitachi ?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:05 am

Yes I noted the two twin choke carburettors as well . I'd have thought that the Dak Dak engine with its self contained air cooling would have had packaging advantages and the heads a bit more modern read better breathing than Subarus early Briggs and Stratton tech heads .

Its hard but not impossible to run an air cooled engine out of cooling air , the same can't be said for early Zoobs and cooling water .

Your call but I'd look hard at the pros and cons of water cooled engines and why so many trike like things use the Dak donk .

A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:56 am

Yeah, thnking surely there is more power upgrades available for the VW engine than our old EA81 unless you have the Safari rally kit? Seen a Herbie bug for sale in Unique Cars with 170HP donk! Somehow with this little birdy don't think power is the desired result?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:02 am

Guys you need to read his posts and other threads better

the EA81 will get a 32/36

cost wise improving power of EA81 compared to improving power of a VW motor the EA81 wins hands down.

TOONGA

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:27 am

Tweety wrote:yes we have toured through Young and Griffith a few times. there is another yellow Panther trike housed in Holbrook also.

The auto VW box ratios are little different to the Subaru EA81 1980-1982 model 3 speed auto. final drive are the similar also at around 3.7.

tyres and wheels are a different story.

Leone use tyres 175/70/r13 Trike 275/60/r15 Using a tyre calculator at
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php we get a difference of 19% taller with the trike.

Original tyres on the trike were 295/50/r15 and they would give me 15% taller gearing.

Bearing in mind that the trike revs at 3,200 rpm at 100kph. Advice from aussieveedubber forum suggest two ways of lowering the gearing to make it more comfortable and use less fuel.
1- seek a diff expert to lower the final drive ration to say 3.2:1
2- seek a reverse crown Subaru 4 speed auto box from Subarugears.

second option has issues with the Panther in that it is the onle monocoque chassis trike in Oz. it has a alloy box shaped fuel tank under the dummy tank. As the Subie trans is 140mm longer than the VW type 3 you can only convert it by either modifying the tank (No!) or using longer trailing arms (a future option.)

so I'm at a loss with ratios because considering the above figures the revs should drop dramatically but I know they wont???? My guess is the leone example revs similar to the trike.

Torque curve. with all this info perhaps someone can give us an idea of how the trike will behave, acceleration difference? torque curves? towing difference (400-450kgs) etc The Ea81 will have a new weber 32/36 and new electronic dizzy.

Bugger me. This all seems too familiar. Only I shoved an EA81 in a late type 2 with a 1600 manual box. It has a 32/36 grafted on and I'm working on electronic dissy.
Everything seems pretty similar spec wise with the ea81 to roughly a 2.0FI VW engine. Although with the 32/36 it's anyone's guess.

The final drive is about 3.6? Wow. Longer than I thought. Mine is 5.37. It has the engine howling at 100km/h. Good for dragging stuff around though and hills.

I eagerly await seeing your progress on the trike and hope you are having more luck than me with your conversion.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:36 am

The number one reason for trikes using VW aircooled is weight. Over the years it has been a real challenge for trike builders to keep under the stupid 450kgm weight limit which was abolished totally in January 2011. Thats why you will soon see V8 trikes on our roads soon. Anything over 450 kgms prior to January and they had to comply with different rules like anti pollution, seat belts etc. In fact even an auto trans nearly tipped it over the 450 kgms at 448.

Then you add your accessories. Top box, ladder bars, spot lights, wide wheels etc -all accessories.

A EA81 with radiator, water etc would not have complied. A Harley engine would hence some Bon trikes in the early days had them. I wanted to go that way but big dollars ($10,000 fitted) and sourcing an adapter plate was a problem.

In the end it was common sense to go Subaru and I wanted simplicity, single carb, something I can likely fix in the middle of nowhere etc. My engine bay wont be as attractive but the trike is attractive enough in fact its a magnet. I will be quite content with a few more horses. After all I will be pulling say 570 kgms and 1100kgms with the van. Dont like maxing out my credit card trying to get 30 more horses from the volksy. They aren't cheap.

I priced some mods for it. About 8-12,000 for your engine with twin spark heads, cam, balanced crank, larger valves, lifter work, larger barrells and pistons etc. This Subie conversion has been priced at around $3300 after purchasing engine (recoed 80,000kms ago), radiator, adapter (comes with its own flex plate), new weber and dizzy etc. about the same as what I sold the VW engine for and have two rare flex plates for sale also.

From what I've read the weber 32/36 will give another 10hp.

and the misses is happy!

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:44 am

From http://www.vwtype3.org/owners.manual/me ... rans.shtml

VW type 3 auto

SPECIFICATIONS

Gear Ratios
First...........2.65:1
Second..........1.59:1
Third...........1:1
Reverse.........1.8:1
Final Drive.....3.67:1
Maintenence
Check fluid level every month.
Change ATF every 2 years.
Uses 7.8 pints/3.6 litres/3.9 quarts of Dextron type ATF
fluid

I think your 5.37 is your issue. eventually I'd like to get another transaxle (rare as hens teeth) and change the final drive to say 3.2 but I'll see how it performs.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:11 am

I don't have the figures in front of me but both the type 4 and the EA81 come in at 80 odd kg. I'm assuming that's unadorned for both motors because my type4 is sitting on a pallet with most of its tin and it is definitely heavier than the EA81. But then there's the type 1 / type 4 difference. Type 1s are light and are made of "Elektron" Magnesium alloy whereas the type4 is Aluminium.

My final drive suits me fine. Don't want to go too fast in a 35 year old brick

It's also a beast of a ratio in first. It can idle up ramps which isn't bad.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:45 pm

Received my Sherman adapter plate last week. Comes with its own automatic flex plate.

The day the new owner (hi mac) picked up the VW engine I broke my leg. So progress has been halted for now. see you in 4-5 weeks.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:17 pm

Picked up the EA81 engine. Spoke to the elderly mechanic owner at length. The engine has been totally recoed. I'm happy. he even installed the weber and new dizzy without charge.

So I guess the questions will come along now from this novice and am hoping a little of your valuable time is spent assisting me.

I have two types of air filter arrangements. the square type and the after market one. As I'm hoping to position a Jeep radiator over the transaxle the after market type seems the way to go and move it in position so cold air can be sucked in. Am I on the right track here? The square one has a hole bottom right for I assume engine fume entry but the after market one doesnt have such provision. Help please? Can the air return pipes from the rocker covers be directed here?

There is a lot of tubes the previous owner told me I have to block off. I was in no state to absorb much today at that time [perhaps you can let me know what I can/cannot discard, what I can cut and block etc. This canister for example- can it be discarded?

Am taking off the small bell housing.

Can the dip stick outer tube be swung around to face a different direction to make room? Can the oil filler tube do the same?

thanks

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:06 pm

There is a lot of tubes the previous owner told me I have to block off. I was in no state to absorb much today at that time perhaps you can let me know what I can/cannot discard, what I can cut and block etc. This canister for example- can it be discarded?

the canister acts like a baffle if you follow it, it goes to an exhaust gas recycler that goes to a pipe that terminates on the exhaust flange which is all so from memory part of the cold start system.

Can the dip stick outer tube be swung around to face a different direction to make room? Can the oil filler tube do the same?

this is from the FSM for the EA81

the dipstick is held in by a rubber o ring and the filler neck is held in by 2 bolts

hope this helps

TOONGA

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:08 pm

I've searched our site here for vacuum tube blocking off for weber conversion but some links to other sites lead to no mans land now. So when I've finished with this conversion it might be a good idea for me to take some pics and list work done in this regard.

From what info I have read the carbon canister can be retained but most of the vacuum tubes can be blocked off having been for the operation of the Hitachi carb. One tube can be used for the auto trans modular valve and the mechanic pointed that on out to me.

Your drawings there toonga tell me the oil filler might be able to be reversed mounted allowing more room for the jeep radiator but I'll assess that once its installed.

I'm eager to clean up this engine and block off the tubes making it less cluttered.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:24 pm

Off with the small bell housing. A good look at the dip stick as it is towards the sump confirmed its straight meaning I can rotate the top half anti clockwise toward the carb for easier access when its in the trike.

As you can see the oil filler pipe has also been reversed on its mount to allow both items on the same side of the engine.

I am likely now to order both rear seals for the adapter and main after I bolt on the adapter plate.

All is going ok.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:17 pm

Good progress today.

Adapter plate on without a hitch. Commenced taking off clutter anti clockwise around the engine. Amazing....now I know what the intake manifold looks like! LHS at least.

Spark plugs are NGK BP6ES and they are set at around 39 thou ". Is this ok? Surfing the net doesnt make easy findings on specs I'm afraid. But they are in good nick and nice colour tips.

The cast alternator/A/C compressor mount weighs a ton! Gunna cut it up...bits I dont need so just the alternator mount will remain.

Its strong to take all that weight of the compressor not doubt. So as my trike isnt going to have aircon (it has a demister of two 12 volt hair driers mounted in a exhaust extension and heater by subaru in the future....its cold in these hills) see below

Reckon tomorrow will finish taking "stuff off". Looks like the carbon canister will remain albeit a way from the engine more.

I still dont know how I'm going to get valve cover air return into the cold air intake air filter system.