More Grief L Series major electrics

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:06 pm

OK ! Who was it?
When I was thinking about buying my 1986 L Series GLTA (Grand Luxury Turbo Automatic) someone one here said it would be cheap grief if anything went wrong or words to that effect.

Major electrical GRIEF at the moment. Scene: Doing 115 in a 115 zone or so I thought it was, turn off into 80 territory. First thing I know my wipers are going off at normal speed then fast (stealing the earth of the wiper circuit to keep something else alive?), my brake light out dash light comes on and stays on this time (just been flashing intermittent on brake application, lights still working) then it is coughin' and splutterin' and got no go other than idle and low load. I pull over and remove wiper fuse, car still idling, brake warning light stays on I think. I notice that when I apply brakes the dash light park light circuit lights up. Finding a blown tail/brake light explains this I thought with filament touching from brake to tail circuit. Wasn't too far from my parents place and managed to limp it home there - only just.I had a burning circuit board smell inside. My PDA adapter running my road angel had lost power yet the engine watch dog sharing same cig lighter socker still working. Thought maybe I had fried my PDA adapter and that would smell hope my road angel still good. NOPE . NOW I AM REALLY....... More electrical burn smell as car gets worse before home base.

No restart no nothing no power to lights or nothing, horn etc.

Found battery earth terminal loose and powdery inbetween clamp and terminal. Clean up and tighten up. Still nothing Ah, those fusible links. Found the main black one broken off at the end of the spade as from old age corrosion (like my BRumby two years ago!!) Tore off to a wrecker and grabbed every one of them I could for five bucks and a fuse picker I mislaid in my hurry. Testing with a multimeter 12 volts at the battery yet only 1.35 volts at the fusible link terminal without the link, plug in the link and get no voltage reading from either side. I then tested the continuity between each side of the black FL termnals to earth and got a connection buzz from the multimeter. Think that is wrong. Car started and got a quick rev out of it before shutting it down. Checked fuses to find two had blown.

The tail licence illumination had gone so I replaced it only to find it blew on its own without me turning the lights on at all.

The meter engine fuse also. Simply replaced it, I now got ignition lights and car started again but then died after its fuse blew again.

I think I need to strip wire from battery to FL box as suspect it should have battery powe not 1.35 volts - might be burnt out and just running small volts along carbon remains?

Patience now severely tested

Suby Roo · Post by **Suby Roo** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:11 pm

How is tha battery? i Had a simalar problem and it was caused by the plates in the battery touching, New battery, No problems!

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:46 pm

My mum asked me same question. Battery has 12V or more and cranks motor over real good. The power loss between the POS terminal and the fusible link FL common delivery point down to 1.35 V seems to be the main culprit. Got one to play with, prolly bend the dick flat on the spade terminal to remove the four terminal supply side and fit to Project Cheap Grief.

Went back to wrecker where I actually bought CG three years ago and found a guy who knew CG. It had been a trade in at a dealer, one of the sales guys used to sell them when new and reckoned they were great, wanted it fixed up for himself and log story short is that is how it ended up in a wrecking yard. "That thing had a few problems" he said. It ain't stopped - the problems and the car. I've done 30,000km in it !! Love driving it meself and will have to rig something up and go chase fuse6 and fuse12 and all their connections to sort it out

I am still really pissed the whole thing killed my road angel but its fuse should have protected it!!

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:39 pm

The 1.35 Volts I got at the FL box did not make sense. After playing with a spare FL box and recovering the four terminal supply bar from the housing, the other end of this goes directly to the POS battery terminal so should have battery voltage which I found to be at least 12V. Gotta wonder how anything worked at all link to this supply. Further inspection will tell, hoping I not fried anything else. Just sitting beneath some big trees in these high winds we been getting...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:33 pm

Suby Roo - just how similar did you get? Can you detail it for us please?

I think the main black Fusible Link has been on its way out due to corrosion and picked a fine time to do so. Coincidence?

I think that this problem started due to brake light filament falling onto tail light filament and powered back to the light switch circuit (parkers). Gonna probe with multi meter with fuse removed and probe from the bad side of each fuse circuit unplug items of the fuse circuit one at a time to see if the fuse earths out somewhere.

Might just check every electrical thing and tick it off against the fuse circuits. Thinking the light switch has a short inside as does the dash. I hate pulling L series dash gauge panels out !!

Why the wipers start up on their own, dunno

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:02 pm

thinking.....

when this baby was auto the brake lights the wipers and kickdown had a connection - when the button on the dash was in and either the brakes applied, acc pedal kicked down or the wipers turned on the rear wheels would lock in automatically !!

When I went from auto to manual I simply unplugged the connectors in the engine bay. Now, I wonder.....

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:57 pm

my interior light at centre has blown [has power], the spots [maplights] work.
front right park light blown - worked before truly !
both brake bulbs gone in a big way - melted the filament stand - onto tail light connections. replaced both brake bulbs and they continue to work as to tail lights

INSIDE smells burnt electronics

This is beginning to sound like an autopsy. Engine will crank over but no longer fire

Have put out a call in subaru chat asking for help in isolating L series fuse duties as I have differing diagrams. If you can help please do

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Sounds like you have had a voltage spike, like say over 15v

I have a possible explanation.

How are the wires to your alternator?

Is it possible that one of the wires in the charge circuit, or maybe the Alt Regulator itself has failed?

If the voltage of the field winding of your alternator rose considerably because of the above scenario, the output voltage would also have risen and caused a voltage spike of over 30v

Could this explain your issues?

rubisubi · Post by **rubisubi** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:44 pm

welcome to the world of subarus, their great when they work well, pity they dont work well all that often.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:31 pm

Check the alternator - mine died at 400,000km after the bearings fell completely apart and shorted out the circuits/electrics internally - no fuses blew, just my dash warning lights came on and a very strong/bad electronic burning smell was present too.

Swapped out the alternator and I have not had a flat battery after 3 days of no driving since the change.

Best of luck!

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:18 am

Yeah, old Subarus - but I am sticking with them JUST VERY TESTING [with my sanity]

Was thinking same thing like computer surge guards killed my PC because they did not contain a spike, coz it was not a spike guard!. The two words have been playing on my mind.

A corroded main fuse link may have something to do with it or the loose battery terminal. Will try another alternator - may be the source for fuse #12 problem. Chasing fuse #6 first suspect it may be horn power earthing somewhere. Think I heard my dizzy module whistle before it died

Did EA82s ever have points?

Suby Roo · Post by **Suby Roo** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:06 am

steptoe wrote:Suby Roo - just how similar did you get? Can you detail it for us please?

I think the main black Fusible Link has been on its way out due to corrosion and picked a fine time to do so. Coincidence?

I think that this problem started due to brake light filament falling onto tail light filament and powered back to the light switch circuit (parkers). Gonna probe with multi meter with fuse removed and probe from the bad side of each fuse circuit unplug items of the fuse circuit one at a time to see if the fuse earths out somewhere.

Might just check every electrical thing and tick it off against the fuse circuits. Thinking the light switch has a short inside as does the dash. I hate pulling L series dash gauge panels out !!

Why the wipers start up on their own, dunno

Basically it would be fine then when i stopped it wouoldnt start again, and would burn the black fusable link out, It would then all of a sudden be right again after i played around with the link - replaced it, and would be fine for a bit then happen again. i would also lose power to the stereo, indicators,trailer plug and wipers. After i ran out of links i 'modified' The fusable link box so i could fit a circut breaker in there, but it made no difference.

So then i tested all the electrical circuits and came up with nothing, but the problem was still there, Swapped alternators with a good one, starter motor and still no good.

Then i put a new battery in it and didnt have any problems after that. Cut the top off my old battery and could see where the plates were coming into contact.

Cheers, Jarrod

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:06 pm

The detail is apreciated muchly, thanks Jarrod

I had a few things go wrong as result of this surge or spike. Trying to sort one by one. Fuse 6 has an earth on its outlet red wire white trace. Disconnected the horns - no fix.

Fuse 6 has full time power not needing ignition or accessories so that has to narrow things down to horn, interior lights, boot light, headlights, central locking and hazards are all I can think of that work without IGN or ACC. There is no clock hooked up . Can you think of anything else that runs off battery power. I have no radio, CD player, oh glovebox light is there too!

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:04 pm

My RX Turbo has JF2AC5BR0BE and its compliance plate is date stamped 8/86 .

I have its fuse box cover here but I'm not sure how its numbering system works . The legend reads like this looking at the diagram under it .

"DON'T USE EXCEPT SPECIFIED FUSE"

BATT.........................arrow......................... LOAD

R-DEF........................CHARGE...................... HEATER
R-DEF.................BACK TURN 4WD AT............. HEATER
BLANK...................IG COIL FUEL.................... STOP ROOM
(DR LOCK)..............METER ENGINE................. TAIL LICENSE ILLUM
(HEIGHT).....................RADIO....................... BLANK
SPARE.........................CIGAR....................... HAZARD CLOCK HORN
SPARE..........................FAN......................... HEAD LH
BLANK.......................WIPER WASHER............. HEAD RH R-FOG

Hope this helps cheers Adrian .

Actually , did you get to the bottom of the std coil resistance specifications .
My mate gave the spiel about coil ignitions and it sounds like a common Bosch GT40 would be a safe bet - I don't think distributor systems like high voltage coil outputs and tend to erode caps and rotors .

Actually he said distributor less systems were stage two in the high energy ignition system saga and direct fire or coil on plug stage three .
I think it was all about firing really lean mixtures on late ULEV cars that made the need for 60 and 100,000 volt ignition systems on Holdens and Fords .
He said 40,000 would be adequate on an EA82T ....

dukbilt · Post by **dukbilt** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:09 pm

Hello Steptoe,

sorry to hear about your tale of woe! Be thankful it's not a Jaguar...

I don't know exactly where you're up to at the moment - can you give us a summarised update, particularly with what you have replaced?

Can you get the car to start and run? If not, have you tried pulling out all the fuses, then replacing only those required to start and run the engine? Have you found anything that has been damaged/broken/not working/burnt (aside from the fuses)? Specifically, what fuses and fusible links blew or broke? Were they the right amperage for the positions they were in?

Have you had any problems with the ignition switch itself? There's an electrical switch assembly at the back of the ignition barrel which controls electrical power. That switch suffers a lot of wear, and it may be there's a broken contact inside floating around and shorting things out.

Have you had problems with the battery? It may be worth trying a different battery, or testing the present one. Does the alternator have an internal regulator (I can't remember off hand)? The alternator/regulator is the only item which can really cause a higher voltage spike to occur. The battery puts out 12V, and no more. A 'spike' signifies that the alternator regulator isn't working the way it should - either the regulator is bad, or the reference voltage to the regulator is bad (and this may be the result of corroded fusible links - the reference voltage to the alternator may have been dropped across the corroded links, so the alternator was putting out more than 12V).

Do you have an ammeter/multimeter? Can you measure the current from the battery through the main power lead with the ignition off?

Aside from this, I can't offer any more without more information. Keep in mind that at this stage you don't know if it was a spike or not - and it may be easier to track down the problem if you just concentrate on what is happening instead of what might have been!

Point · Post by **Point** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:44 pm

have you tried visually inspecting as much of the loom as you can? it may be worth lifting carpet and trims to see if someone has previously put a screw through the loom, or if it has been hot and melted the insulation. I believe that the loom can melt where it runs under the radiator if the car has overheated at some stage.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:42 am

Some good help coming in here. THANKS

Adrian, your fuse plate reads like mine should as does your VIN. Anyone trying to read it as it looks in the car, tilt your head 90 degrees touching right ear on right shoulder, HEATER is fuse 1, HEATER is fuse 2, so reads from top left to right.

What is the HEATER in 1 & 2 ? It is not the heater a/c blower fan as that is fuse 15 FAN?

Adrian, next step when you have time is to pull fuse number 4 TAIL LICENCE ILLUM and see what does not work, think it is all dash intsruments and dash lights (must be seperate to park lights?) And pull fuse 6 HAZARD CLOCK HORN Think this also has 4WD auto dash switch on it so Xtreme RX justin would be a good candidate for this one.

And dukbilt very little has been done electrically to this car. I see what you say re spike, just think something has melted like the brake light globe filament mount did, say in the auto 4WD switch as this links brake lights and wipers to work at same time.All fuses and fusible links were correct size and colour. As I place a fuse back in 6 I hear relays or flash can buzz, hold it longer and fuse 6 blows, disconnected the indicator stalk and hi beam switch the clicking stops but fuse still blows so its not in the indicator switch. Horns have been disconnected and fuse 6 still blows. To stop wasting fuses now just earthing a buzzer at top of fuse six and power out of bottom of fuse six. still buzzing.

Engine ran very badly for five kms or so and stopped, new black FL and waas able to restart and rev. After replace fuse 6 and 12 engine meter, engine started and stopped after fuses blew and heard a whistle from under bonnet. That alternator is suspect and as you say the corroded FL may have caused it, may not show anything wrong with alternator now, but it will be swapped out as will battery. Have spare ignition module to fit when all shorts in 6 and 12 are isolated. Was thinking just create new wiring and fuses and relays for horns and whatever is necessary to continue driving pleasure..custom dash coming up ???

Point, see where you are coming from. Will need good inspection on these circuits. Bot light wiring is pretty light, it not work now and may have melted through to an earth.

wil keep you posted

and measure voltage at the terminal with ignition off, I'll give it a go, battery was giving no trouble, green water level window indicating fine, but was low, all plates still covered, topped up, still reads green.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:18 am

Sorry no time ATM , running the Indian to Parks this afternoon and busy till Monday morning .

A .

dukbilt · Post by **dukbilt** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:39 pm

Steptoe,

I've tried to look at the circuit diagram for your model but end up with the following error when I try to access the 'Electrical Systems' link in the AUSubaru.com Technical Manual:
Fatal error: Out of memory (allocated 27262976) (tried to allocate 6530904 bytes) in /home/byb555/public_html/wiki/includes/Parser.php on line 706

Can you send me a copy of the circuit?

When I was talking about measuring the battery with ignition off, I want to know the current draw - not the voltage. The voltage at the battery will always be around 12V unless the battery is bad or there is a really large load drawing huge amounts of current. Do you have an ammeter? I'll let you know how to use the ammeter to measure the current draw.

What are the current ratings for the fuses that blew?

Have you tried removing the 'flasher can' for the indicators/hazard lights? There should only be one for both, as the indicators are the hazard lights. Try removing the flasher can, and then seeing if the buzzer still buzzes. If it doesn't, replace the fuse and see if it still blows. If the fuse doesn't blow with the flasher can removed, then it's either the flasher can or something after that.

The two heater fuses are possibly for the one circuit - but by running two parallel circuits half the current flows in each wire. If one fuse blows, all the current will flow through the second fuse, causing it to blow. The only advantage of this configuration is that the wiring, fuses, and fuse box connections are the 'standard' current rating, which is easier to manufacture. Otherwise there needs to be one high current fuse with high current terminals, and high current wire, in the wiring.

Any idea as to what 'meter engine' is for? Is that the Ammeter or alternator light? If it is either, try disconnecting the alternator lead and then seeing if fuse 12 blows. Don't let that disconnected lead touch anything on the car - wrap it in some thick insulation before hand, otherwise you'll get far more burning smell...

Ewan

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:49 pm

I can work on getting a copy of the circuit, prolly sun night. Things will be clearer when I sort out the right fuse lid and the diagrams for the car!!

Current draw , ammeter - I think my multimeter $30 Dicksmith Elect ten years ago has ammeter ? maybe not, I'll check. It has DCA 2m, 20m/20A/30 sec and 200m scale, mA and 20A plug holes for test leads

Fuses that blew are blue 15A

was thinking flasher cans and relays and disconnecting white plug at back of alternator so must be on same wavelength just slow as I am not with car.

Ned to look at diagram to see if HEATER is actually rear demister circuit as have no electric heater in car

Meter engine is for all instrument meters in dash assy I think, recall. wWill get another look play Sunday arvo. Those relays and flasher cans are real easy to get to, NOT, to see or do anything with them (note to self, try yoga classes)