totally stumped!

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:32 pm

well i've got the NA MPFI engine in my RX with all the turbo bits connected.

everything is from the NA engine or the turbo engine. both engines ran fine before i took them both out (well except for the turbo engine - head gasket problem).

basically all of the air intake system is turbo, turbo injectors, NA everything else (and not really that much lol).

i'm still using the 3 plug turbo loom and ecu of course.

but the damn thing wont start!!!!!!

i've tried everything. realigned the dizzy about 200 times, drained the battery 19 times, tried changing the ecu to a spare 3 plug turbo one i have and still nothing.

the only thing that's worrying me is when i was connecting the battery 1 time, the earth wire briefly touched the positive. i checked all the fuses and everything is ok. another time i had the spark wires on the wrong way (had 1432, but now 1423 as it should be - well i think so)

i'm totally and utterly lost and it still wont start. the engine turns over fine. i've 1 had backfire (small) early on in the peice but that's it.

any thoughts??? i'm all outta ideas (and getting just a little frustrated)

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:53 pm

obviously battery is ok if it's turning over. Have you checked the spark plugs are working/clean? Can test the leads by putting them near a metal surface and turning over the engine, they should spark or make a noise if they're working. Last thing to check is if your motor is getting fuel but i'm not sure about checking injectors/pumps, i've only looked down carburettors

Cheers,
Rhys

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:14 pm

yeah battery is ok (after it gets recharged lol). spark plugs should be ok - i started the engine while it was in the donor car only a few days ago. in saying that, i havent cleaned them since - but will do that before next attempt. the engine should be getting fuel. pump is working and i can hear the fuel going through the rails. can only assume i have the injector plugs on the right way - ie 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 and not the other way around! (can someone check the colours for me pls???)

subarooster · Post by **subarooster** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:58 pm

if you can get a hold of a Noid light. (autoelec may lend you one) plug it into each injector plug to see if there is a pulse. If not that, i'd check spark leads (hold one of the spark plug leads near a good earth and you will see it spark while cranking. Then i would check to see if there is fuel making it all the way to the rail.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:09 pm

I was going to say about timing belt, is it aligned correctly? And i was going to say exactly what venom said above...
And pull out one of the fuel lines just before it gets to the fuel rails to see if the fuel squirts out or not...
Cheers
AP

subarooster · Post by **subarooster** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:15 pm

If you can get a fuel pressure guage from somewhere, even better!

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:20 pm

fuel lines definately squirt, well have fuel anyway. originally i put in a set of spare injectors for a turbo engine i had, then i put the injectors i was previously using. the strangest of strange things is that everything - both engines - were working before i mashed them together. i didnt touch the timing belt. again, the strangest part is that both engines were working fine before the mash. i'll put on the turbo spark leads and see if that does anything. shouldnt as i was checking timing on cylinder 1 and it was sparking so you'd assume that was all ok - again, they were working a few days ago

i've got a multimeter - i'll test injector 1 to see if it's getting pulse. with the one i've got, i can even find out the duty cycle.

i'm honestly just utterly stumped. at least if there was a few splutters i'd have some hope, but i've got nothing.

have i got the spark plug order right on the dizzy? 1 at the rear closest to the firewall, then clockwise 4-2-3 ???

and when the flywheel shows TDC, the dizzy is pointing to the rear just past where cylinder 1 plug lead connect?

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:21 pm

can change the fuel reg from the turbo engine on to the NA engine and see if that helps.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Spark + fuel - essential.

Doesn't sound like you've actually checked if it's definitely getting spark on all cylinders.

Take each lead off the spark plugs and turn the motor over with the lead right next to something metal on the block. Make sure you get a strong spark arking.

Also check that fuel is coming out the return line. Maybe it's getting into the fuel rails but there is a blockage somewhere. Regulator can sometimes cause this.

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:37 pm

will check that to be doubley sure.

return line is getting fuel - i can feel the fuel pump pulses going through the return line

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:08 pm

got spark on all 4 cylinders. nice and strong. the gap spark plug on 3 was a little small so i fixed that, otherwise perfect.

got to work at 530am in the morning, so bed now, but will plug in an injector in to the loom (without fuel connected) and see if it ticks tomorrow arv

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:57 pm

Developed a rule of thumb if got no start. Check for spark, if got spark spray Aerostart, start ya bastard into air tract, then if it tries to run sounds like no fuel.

You did not touch timing belts. Did you swap dizzies? Like shove the four wire moduled 3 plug dizzy into the NA mpfi engine? You got spark but is it the timing? Are the plugs getting wet from fuel not burning?

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:43 am

i didnt touch the timing belts so i assumed that was all ok. however i did check their alignment and the marker hole thingie were both 45 degrees from TDC. HOWEVER i didnt check that in relation to the flywheel, but the flywheel can only go on 1 way right? and yep got the 3 plug dizzy.

i'm going to check the fuel this arvo. the plugs were certainly not soaked when i tested them for spark as i thought they should be.

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:45 am

i checked all the fuses and everything is ok. another time i had the spark wires on the wrong way (had 1432, but now 1423 as it should be - well i think so)

The fireing order should be 1324. Ie: front then back on drivers side, then front , back on passengers side.
Cheers
Grant

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:53 am

really??? i was purely going off the dodgy workshop manual i downloaded and it wasnt overly clear, but it looked like 1423. but damn if it's something that simple

Subaman · Post by **Subaman** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:14 am

Just incase you didnt know , when setting the cam belts, dont go off the TDC advance and retard markers on the flywheel, you need to look for 3 lines like this lll and line the pointer up with the centre one. Also the timing should be set between 20 to 24 degrees.

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:24 am

yep all good with that - however trusting that you did it right too

the way i checked was i put the engine at TDC and (as per the workshop manual) the 1-3 head cam gear is at 45 degrees before the top, the 2-4 head cam gear is 45 degrees before the bottom

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:53 am

Yeah, I thought that was wrong as I remembered it fired one side then the other in front to back order. I'll send you my fool proof method pics to set EA82T at close to 20BTDC.
I'd set flywheel at twenty, then looking at RHS, turbo side cam sprocket with the cover removed I think it was one tooth valley as in the bottom of tooth beyond or before the little round hole or mark hole (pics will show), dizzy in position where No 1 is towards firewall, leads correct order

and I use a 25 thou feeler gauge flat between the two dizzy bits that line up to fire, so that they are about to line up by 25 thou (again the pics worth a thou words) You won't want 20BTDC with the compression so reset it once running

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:57 am

cool thanks

T'subaru · Post by **T'subaru** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:14 am

twilightprotege wrote:really??? i was purely going off the dodgy workshop manual i downloaded and it wasnt overly clear, but it looked like 1423. but damn if it's something that simple

Heres a non dodgy free download fsm but its avaiation based so they did not bother to scan the whole manual, but excellent info on engine, fuel and electrical,troubleshooting etc but nothing on drive train or body electrical. I have the fsms for '89 rx's and such if any info ever needed. http://www.ch601.org/engines.htm
Mark