Coolant and oil leak in 92 liberty

[freddo]

Hi,
I've recently had coolant dripping at about 1 drip/sec when the car is running, a bit faster when its hot.

Looks like its dripping down from the centre of the engine, slightly the passenger side of the car. dribbles from somewhere unseen and then drips onto sump housing...

Could this have also started an oil leak? noticed lots of oil coming from same side head.

please see attatched photo of where its dripping from...

What do you think of it?

Thanks,
Tim

[RSR 555]

Hi and Welcome Tim

Sounds like the water pump tell tale time to replace the pump.. and maybe the timing belt and pulleys while you're there

[guyph_01]

yep definitely the water pump. Must be the seal that's got too old.

[Alex]

rocker cover seals (or cam covers) for the oil leak...fairly common in the older motors.

yeah id say water pump, could even just be a split hose in that vicinity also.

alex

[AlpineRaven]

3+ Water Pump.
Cheers
AP

[freddo]

Dammit, it's only done 37,000 since last timing belt (and hopefully) waterpump change...

Would the water pump being out cause the oil to leak also? or do you recon its a seperate problem?

[RSR 555]

Dammit, it's only done 37,000 since last timing belt (and hopefully) waterpump change...

Would the water pump being out cause the oil to leak also? or do you recon its a seperate problem?

Umm.. check your records to see if the waterpump was replaced (and if under 12months maybe a warranty job) but saying this, it may have failed due to other reasons (sorry don't mean to sound alarms) but best to check the whole cooling system is working correctly radiator blockage, thermostat issue, fans issue.. just things to have checked when getting the pump replaced.

Oil will be coming from a different place but if the engine is getting hot then the seals can become brittle and leak.

Sorry to bare bad news but hopefully your in luck and it's just a dodgy waterpump

[freddo]

So, turns out the stupid-arse last owner didnt replace water pump when he did timing belt 37,000kms ago.

So i guess i'll try replacing the waterpump first...
recon i should go new pump, or go to the wreckers and try and find a car with similar k's (ie 137,000, or 237,000)???

i used to own a 94 liberty, it was quad cam and had a camseal oil leak. I tried to fix it, but when i was tightening cam pulley wheels, one of the buggers span and bent the valves... any chance that happening if i'm just taking the timing belt off?

If i did waterpump at home, all i'd have to do is get crankshaft pulley off, mark positions on timing belt, release tensioner, pull the belt off and unbolt/bolt on new waterpump...?
what else is worth checking while im there?

any tips for undo-ing crankshaft bolt (its an auto), last time i disconnected spark leads and turned her over (carefully) with breaker bar against the ground...

i guess i'll have a better idea of where the oil is coming from once ive had a poke around, but it looks to be coming from head gasket, or the gasket between head and engine block... that sort of area anyways... any clues?

once i've replaced the waterpump, do you think the oil will still leak, due to overheated/cracked seals/gaskets? or do you recon it'll run cooler and wont leak?

The car only went up the temp gauge once, noticed it pretty quickly. gauge only got to halfway between normal (half way up the gauge)and hot line. been monitoring it ever since and its never gone above normal.

Thanks heaps, and really appreciate the help.
Tim.

[AlpineRaven]

Mate Don't bother getting 2nd hand one or reco pump, just get new one for monies worth.
Cheers
AP

[RSR 555]

So, turns out the stupid-arse last owner didnt replace water pump when he did timing belt 37,000kms ago.

So i guess i'll try replacing the waterpump first...
recon i should go new pump, or go to the wreckers and try and find a car with similar k's (ie 137,000, or 237,000)???

Buy new.. Genuine or aftermarket is your choise but don't waste time and money on an old one.. it will just bite you in the a...

i used to own a 94 liberty, it was quad cam and had a camseal oil leak. I tried to fix it, but when i was tightening cam pulley wheels, one of the buggers span and bent the valves... any chance that happening if i'm just taking the timing belt off?

Your current Liberty, is it SOHC or DOHC? I guessing that's it's different from your old Liberty and this one is SOHC.. in which case, you won't have the valve problem

If i did waterpump at home, all i'd have to do is get crankshaft pulley off, mark positions on timing belt, release tensioner, pull the belt off and unbolt/bolt on new waterpump...?
what else is worth checking while im there?

If you are doing it at home then I'd first make sure you have all the correct tools required.. unless you don't need to use the car? It's best to change the belt and pulleys unless you 100% confident that the previous owner is legit and by the sounds of it.. not I'd be also replacing all the seals (use genuine or really good quality seals)

any tips for undo-ing crankshaft bolt (its an auto), last time i disconnected spark leads and turned her over (carefully) with breaker bar against the ground...

Nowdays I use a tool specially designed for it but years ago I used to put a powerbar/breakerbar (long one) across the chassis rail then flick the starter key (make sure you know which way it turns) and when installing.. use loctite

i guess i'll have a better idea of where the oil is coming from once ive had a poke around, but it looks to be coming from head gasket, or the gasket between head and engine block... that sort of area anyways... any clues?

Really need to see/know where it's coming from to give you good advise but if it's the head to block then I'd look at how bad the leak is and make a judgement from there.

once i've replaced the waterpump, do you think the oil will still leak, due to overheated/cracked seals/gaskets? or do you recon it'll run cooler and wont leak?

Yes.. it will still leak.. once the engine has got hot (even once) the seals will be kaput

The car only went up the temp gauge once, noticed it pretty quickly. gauge only got to halfway between normal (half way up the gauge)and hot line. been monitoring it ever since and its never gone above normal.

This probably happened only once while you owned it but you can't tell what happened when the previous owner had it

Thanks heaps, and really appreciate the help.
Tim.

See replies in red

Cheers,
Paul

[freddo]

Woohoo! current is SOHC!

Car came with invoice from Mechanic, saying at least one of the idler pulleys(more than one in SOHC??) , 2x camseals, timing belt and tensioner were all replaced... this was done at 122,000 so not too long ago...unless its a false invoice...?

if i just do the waterpump, and then in 10,000 kms the timing belt breaks... it doesnt mean too much except towing the car home, and changing the belt... right? or can it still cause probs on SOHC?

for tools, dont i just need socket set, breaker bar and 22mm socket for crankshaft? any specific tools needed to loosen the tensioner?

Tim

[freddo]

Awesome,
Just found the SOHC Timing belt procedure PDF.
Looks like i have to take off passenger side cam pulley wheel to access waterpump?

is there any way i can stuff the engine up (as i did with a DOHC suby) by bending valves etc... if im a little heavy handed with getting the bolts undone?

looks like i just have to mark everything really well once i get the engine in TDC, then make sure i re-allign when putting it back together again?

what else do i need to think about? (except getting a mechanic to do it

[AlpineRaven]

Awesome,
Just found the SOHC Timing belt procedure PDF.
Looks like i have to take off passenger side cam pulley wheel to access waterpump?

is there any way i can stuff the engine up (as i did with a DOHC suby) by bending valves etc... if im a little heavy handed with getting the bolts undone?

looks like i just have to mark everything really well once i get the engine in TDC, then make sure i re-allign when putting it back together again?

what else do i need to think about? (except getting a mechanic to do it

Know what.. get a paint marker and mark everything to line up, dont turn or twist the pulleys etc, line up all lines to correct upwards position, if it doesnt, turn the engine over one more time - can be turned over 4 times till you get the correct lined up marks, then leave it..

I cant remember if you do need to remove the cam pulley or not.

Tensioner can be re-pressed on a vice or g-clamp slowly, and use 2.5mm allen key or nail in the small hole and remove it after you tighten it up on the engine.
Cheers
AP

[El_Freddo]

Know what.. get a paint marker and mark everything to line up, dont turn or twist the pulleys etc, line up all lines to correct upwards position, if it doesnt, turn the engine over one more time - can be turned over 4 times till you get the correct lined up marks, then leave it..

I cant remember if you do need to remove the cam pulley or not.

Tensioner can be re-pressed on a vice or g-clamp slowly, and use 2.5mm allen key or nail in the small hole and remove it after you tighten it up on the engine.

The procedure for correct cam belt install on the EA82 is like this: painting the pulleys won't work as one of them won't stay where it needs to if you like up the marks on the fly wheel.

1) Find the three marks on the flywheel, they are a little further in one way or the other from the timing marks (can't remember which way), line these up with the marking tab.

2) Line up the Passenger's side cam gear so that the hole on the cog/pulley's outer edge is lined up with the mark in the timing belt cover and fit the cam belt. Tighten idler pulleys.

3) Rotate the crankshaft ONE rotation until the 3 marks line up again.

4) Line up the Driver's side cam cog/pulley's hole with the mark in the cam timing covers and fit the cam belt. Tighten the idler pulleys.

5) refit the cam covers.

Not really difficult once you know whats involved. The EA82 has 2 cambelts as described in the above procedure.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Bennie

PS another freddo on the block eh?

[El_Freddo]

Sorry, for some reason thought we were talking about an L series, not a liberty... So ignore the above post for this application.

Yes there is more than one idler pulley for the EJ series motors. I think there's 3 in total.

That pic will be a dead water pump for sure. I checked the one out on my EJ22 before installing it in my L, all checked out well until I did a ~100km drive to bendigo where she started dropping coolant. Turned out there was quite a bit of shaft play that I didn't check.

The belt tensioner can be a difficult one to compress. Dad and I did this with a big G clamp and a shifter/adjustable spanner for better leverage on the G clamp's handle. We had to be patient...

The use of the G clamp to compress the tensioner cylinder:



The poor pin that had the tough job of holding it in - it only just held!



The cambelt fitted:



I can count 3 idlers + the tensioner wheel as well...

Hope these pics help you out, more so than my last post anyway!

Cheers

Bennie

[AlpineRaven]

Yep - correct Bennie... again with the vice or g clamp - go slow, follow the 'feel' of the pressure - dont over tighten the 'pressure'.
Cheers
AP

[RSR 555]

Woohoo! current is SOHC!

Car came with invoice from Mechanic, saying at least one of the idler pulleys(more than one in SOHC??) , 2x camseals, timing belt and tensioner were all replaced... this was done at 122,000 so not too long ago...unless its a false invoice...?

if i just do the waterpump, and then in 10,000 kms the timing belt breaks... it doesnt mean too much except towing the car home, and changing the belt... right? or can it still cause probs on SOHC?

for tools, dont i just need socket set, breaker bar and 22mm socket for crankshaft? any specific tools needed to loosen the tensioner?

Tim

Hey Tim.. I'd buy a complete Timing Belt Kit with tensioner (will come compressed and pinned) and Water Pump.

No specific tools other than what you mentioned. Tensioner will be bolted on with 12mm bolts and tensioner pulley will be 14mm (like the other pulleys).

Awesome,
Just found the SOHC Timing belt procedure PDF.
Looks like i have to take off passenger side cam pulley wheel to access waterpump?

Nope.. Waterpump can be removed without taking the camshaft pulley off

is there any way i can stuff the engine up (as i did with a DOHC suby) by bending valves etc... if im a little heavy handed with getting the bolts undone?

No damage to valves but yes to pulley bolts if you over tighten any of them.. just follow the procedure and use a dab of loctite too

looks like i just have to mark everything really well once i get the engine in TDC, then make sure i re-allign when putting it back together again?

Yes.. once the front covers are off, then turn engine to align all the marks to 12o'clock. The new belt will/should have markings on it (dotted line for crank and solid lines for camshaft pulleys) also make sure the writing on the belt reads correctly when standing infront of the car.

what else do i need to think about? (except getting a mechanic to do it

New thermostat and a radiator flush

Replies in red

Sorry, for some reason thought we were talking about an L series, not a liberty... So ignore the above post for this application.

Yes there is more than one idler pulley for the EJ series motors. I think there's 3 in total.

That pic will be a dead water pump for sure. I checked the one out on my EJ22 before installing it in my L, all checked out well until I did a ~100km drive to bendigo where she started dropping coolant. Turned out there was quite a bit of shaft play that I didn't check.

The belt tensioner can be a difficult one to compress. Dad and I did this with a big G clamp and a shifter/adjustable spanner for better leverage on the G clamp's handle. We had to be patient...

The use of the G clamp to compress the tensioner cylinder:



The poor pin that had the tough job of holding it in - it only just held!



The cambelt fitted:



I can count 3 idlers + the tensioner wheel as well...

Hope these pics help you out, more so than my last post anyway!

Cheers

Bennie

Nice work Bennie.. wouldn't recommend a G clamp unless no vice is available

Yep - correct Bennie... again with the vice or g clamp - go slow, follow the 'feel' of the pressure - dont over tighten the 'pressure'.
Cheers
AP

Agree.. nice and slow so it doesn't damge the seal inside the tensioner but best buy a new one in the timing belt kit.

[d_generate]

I remember reading somewhere the tensioner should be compressed in an upright position, dunno why but I've never bothered & I always used a rivet to hold it in position.

Might be worth giving Gates Australia a call for prices too, they seem pretty competitive.

[freddo]

Cheers Fellas.
Yeah i was wondering what you were goin on about El Freddo, haha.
I remeber using G-clamp to compress pin when i did leakey camseal in 94 DOHC 2 years ago. sacraficed a little allen key, which worked pretty well
Nice Nicname by the way

RSR, assuming the belt was replaced less 16,000kms ago, whats the reasoning behind replacing it again...? Anyone heard of mech's faking an invoice for a mate?

also, assuming i dont need to get the cam pulley, or rear plastic cover off to replace waterpump, I guess it doesnt matter about over tightening the bolts...?? from the GREAT PHOTO above, looks like i just need to take that idler off to access waterpump?

Guess it will be super easy to do radiator flush while im doing waterpump, as i have to drain all the coolant anyways??

Is thermostat included in New waterpump? looks like its inside the waterpump housing?? or is it seperate bolt on part to bottom of waterpump?

Checked out another site," http://subaruvanagon.com/tom/Timing%20Belt.htm "and a guy recommends going to TDC, marking everything... then turning the crankshaft 90 deg. apparently this avoids the pass side cam pulley wheel from spinning on its spring once you take off t/belt. anyone tried this/ anything to critique it?

[RSR 555]

Sorry Tim, when I said pulley bolts I was talking about the idler pulley bolts ( sorry I knew what I was talking about ) and as long as you're 100% happy with the belt and it's idler pulleys then reuse.. I don't second guess but that is just me.

As for removing the water pump, you'll need to remove 2 idler pulleys.. the tensioner one and the cogged one. A new thermostat is not included in a new pump but usually the thermostat seal is so just check once you buy the pump.

I'd have a radiator shop flush out the rad unless you're running on a tight budget and as you're replacing ther waterpump then I find it a lot easier to remove the rad.. gives you a lot more room to work with.

You can setup the engine to TDC if you like but this is mainly done on the quad cam engines to stop the unspring load being released and causing the inlet and exhaust valves hitting each other.. will never happen on a SOHC engine. I prefer to setup the marks ready for the new installation. If your using the old belt then use the TDC marks and mark the belt and crankshaft sprocket and both camshaft spockets.

Cheers,
Paul