L Series engine problem

starwagon · Post by **starwagon** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:02 pm

The story so far ...

After 1 year of owning my 1991 L series the tapping started.
Nothing unusual there and it's been described over and over in the forums.
I also noticed that I was getting white grey foam inside the oil filler cap.
So I was getting water in with my oil - most probably head gasket or a cracked head? Also the car was never over heated as it has a new radiator and the thermostat works.

So I bought a full gasket set and managed to get my hands on two more heads(with cams and lifters) from a known engine. I cleaned these heads up and replaced the valve stem seals. Checked the lifters and they were all pumped up.

So one weekend I took my engine out and fitted the new heads, cams, lifters etc. Everything went back together and when running I had a tapping on the passenger side. So I took the lifters out of that side and tested them again by pumping them up in some oil. One of them wouldn't pump up! so I replaced this and once again put everything back together. I also cleaned the oil filler tube and cap. Yesss the car ran quiet and smooth, problem solved - or so I thought

A few weeks later the tapping returned, and when I checked the oil filler cap there was foam again. So now I am thinking that it was probably not the heads or lifters at all

So is the oil pump the next main suspect?, I guess the water pump would have nothing to do with it? What else is there I can check

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:31 pm

Are you losing coolant?
Did you clean out your PCV hoses entirely?
Oil level?
Donor was known to you as good?
Retension the heads after initial warm up?
Does your temp gauge work and how do you know it reads all the way to red?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:49 am

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately that lifter tick comes factory and is NOT optional!

Some tricks I've heard of to fix the problem:

- find the pressure relief valve in the oil pump, I believe it is a ball and spring. Shove a washer (or two) or something behind that spring so there's more pressure on the ball.
- remove the cam boxes, clean all oil galleries and fit new O rings - I don't ever recall my EA82 having an O ring in there other than the head gasket, but I could be wrong...
- run a diesel oil through the engine but do not go any further than the required change intervals.

Or the ultimate fix - steptoe is going to love this one

...

Drop an EJ in place of the EA. There I said it (again)!

Cheers

Bennie

starwagon · Post by **starwagon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:38 pm

Thanks for the replies!! Given me some things to check this weekend

Are you losing coolant?
Not so far, the coolant level seems fine. Have not needed to add anything to the overflow tank. Before the head swap I was loosing coolant and there was always a gurgling noise from under the dash. Since the head swap those problems have gone away.

Did you clean out your PCV hoses entirely?
No, I never touched them. I am not sure what they do - take oil vapour somewhere?. How would they contribute to my problem?

Oil level?
Doesn't use hardly any oil at all.

Donor was known to you as good?
Yes I borrowed that car for a week when it was running, and the engine was great. Soon after the car was scrapped for parts and I got the heads.

Retension the heads after initial warm up?
Hmmm, you've got me there. I retensioned the passenger side as I had to back in there because of the lifters. I never did the driver's side. (It's a real pain to go back in there after you've spent ages putting it all back together

)

Does your temp gauge work and how do you know it reads all the way to red?
It seems to work

. After a cold start you can watch the gauge shoot up to just over half and then the thermostat opens and it drops straight back down, Then its always under half. I don't know that the gauge reads to hot, but I am guessing it would.

- find the pressure relief valve in the oil pump, I believe it is a ball and spring. Shove a washer (or two) or something behind that spring so there's more pressure on the ball.
Hmm I will keep that in mind when I have a play this weekend.

- remove the cam boxes, clean all oil galleries and fit new O rings - I don't ever recall my EA82 having an O ring in there other than the head gasket, but I could be wrong...

I was very careful to clean all the galleries before the cam boxes went in. There is a sealing washer in between the head and the cam box. They came as part of my gasket kit so I replaced them.

So jobs for this weekend
- Retention the drivers side head.
- Clean out all the hoses/pipes around the manifold and heads.
- If time, have a fiddle with the oil pump

I have been reading these forums for some time and I notice that you have both done EJ conversions

. Makes great reading and it is something that I would consider in the future. The only thing that I think would put me off is the wiring - scarey!!
Do EJ's have lifters that tap too?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:06 pm

That gurgling sound under dash is a sign Ive had before, the first time it was a head gasket going , other times water level fine.

Those PCV hoses carry oil fumes to be reburnt if working correctly, they also carry steam if you had buttermik from blown head gasket and water in the oil. If not cleaned out may still present like a blown HG.
Wondering if there was enough water in these hoses to present a problem after your hard work, but think not, as water sink to bottom of ump would not be enough to get through system into your lifters again, thinking any moisture would evap off.

Just rambling , trying to work out why you have foam again - pic? Is it whitish brown oily sludgey stuff or foam like dishwashing foam? Too much engine oil can develop air bubbles and frothing in these old subie engines, correct level recommended.

Good to see your gauge works well.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:11 am

starwagon wrote:Does your temp gauge work and how do you know it reads all the way to red?
It seems to work . After a cold start you can watch the gauge shoot up to just over half and then the thermostat opens and it drops straight back down, Then its always under half. I don't know that the gauge reads to hot, but I am guessing it would.

Get an aftermarket gauge as the factory dash gauge has not clear temp indication and you'll be surprised what your factory gauge says compared to what you think it was telling you once you have the aftermarket gauge installed.

starwagon wrote:I have been reading these forums for some time and I notice that you have both done EJ conversions . Makes great reading and it is something that I would consider in the future. The only thing that I think would put me off is the wiring - scarey!!
Do EJ's have lifters that tap too?

I'm not sure that Steptoe has done an EJ conversion, but I could be wrong!

The wiring is messy at first, but once you've got the wiring diagram and start tracing individual wires and doing all the necessary labelling it's pretty easy! I'm keen to cut down another loom just to do it again

EJ's typically don't have the lifter tick - one of the reasons why I got rid of the EA82 (seriously! Hated it!!) other than the fact that I was hungry... I think the early RS liberty turbo engines had a lifter issue that subaru recalled to repair, but I'm not 100% on that.

steptoe wrote:That gurgling sound under dash is a sign Ive had before, the first time it was a head gasket going , other times water level fine.

Having the heater hoses the wrong way around will also create a gurgling sound when you accelerate or rev the engine!

steptoe wrote:Those PCV hoses carry oil fumes to be reburnt if working correctly, they also carry steam if you had buttermik from blown head gasket and water in the oil. If not cleaned out may still present like a blown HG.
Wondering if there was enough water in these hoses to present a problem after your hard work, but think not, as water sink to bottom of ump would not be enough to get through system into your lifters again, thinking any moisture would evap off.

And that's probably where the foam on the bottom of the filler cap is coming from. I used to get this showing up on my old holden's red engine - It never ran hot but we reckon it was condensation in the engine block due to not having any crankcase ventilation system which means that yours could be blocked so there's not sufficient circulation to allow the engine to clear out the crankcase vapours.
It might be worth pulling a hose off one at a time and cleaning it out then replacing it. Also make sure your PC valve, located on the intake manifold where one of the fat black pipes go (can't remember exact location as I ditched my EA ages ago now!), it's a cheap part to replace if you need to, but it should make some noise when you shake it similar to a spray can but when you stop shaking it there should be a spring that closes one end of the valve, if that moves easily I'd renew it. It is technically a part that is meant to be renewed every year! I don't even think the Subaru service crew used to bother with it

Cheers

Bennie

starwagon · Post by **starwagon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:47 pm

Thanks for the replies!
I will update this again after having a look this weekend

starwagon · Post by **starwagon** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:57 pm

I did a little work on the car today.
Checked the engine oil level - normal
Checked the coolant level - normal
Checked the foam under the oil filler cap and realised that it looked worse than it actually was. It was a very thin layer only on the centre of the cap.
I retentioned the drivers side cylinder head. What a pain, just to tighten a few bolts!, but its done now

Checked the PCV pipework and found that it was all completely blocked with sludge that looked like it had been in there for years. Cleaned pipes through and reconnected. Will order a new PCV valve this week. That probably explains why I have been getting oil in the air filter too.
Went for a drive and everything seems to running fine. I couldn't tell if there has been any change to the lifter tick as it stopped ticking last week. That tick seems to come and go with mind of its own

Hopefully it stays away this time. Fingers crossed the oil filler cap stays clean now too.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:06 pm

People here don't agree but I find that EA82's make a lifter , hydraulic rocker pivot really , like noise if there is ANY slack in the cam belts . Its not super difficult to reset the tensioners and I had to do it once on my original donk a couple of thousand ks after renewing the belts tensioners and idlers . That engine was slightly over 300K old at the time and had had its heads off by the previous owner .
For the sake of winding the engine over by hand a couple of times and loosening and retorquing four bolts its well worth a try .

Incidentally the fella that rebuilt my Spider XT4 engine went to open up and clean out a couple of its "lifters" and found nothing wrong with them . Washed the rest and refitted them - no tapping .

A .

starwagon · Post by **starwagon** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:27 pm

Thanks for that disco. I am up to about 5 days now without any tapping

When everything went back together I was careful to tension the belts. I have done it quite a few times since owning the car. I still remember the change after I first tensioned the belts. The car went from struggling to get to 80kph, to suddenly flying along! I guess the belts were pretty loose to begin with

. I have since added a performance coil and changed the exhaust, but nothing compared to the gain from adjusting the belts.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:30 am

Wow, good to hear. Must be similar to replacing a timng chain that has stretched. Nw brings everything back into tune and in your case fixed your tappet noise