Urgent help required!!!

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:18 pm

So today I got around to fitting the 2 new drive shafts on the ute, didn't run into any problems or unexpected issues (a bloody miracle with this car) and got them all fitted up nice, all done. One of the old ones was really worn out the other side not so bad.

Anyway trouble comes when I went to test drive it, now there's a horrendous clicking/rattling noise coming from the drivers side!

Further inspection reveals the inner CV cup is quite loose on the stub axle, you can wiggle it side to side as well as in and out accompanied by a clicking/rattling sound

I didn't check if the old axle did this before I removed it. Also of note on this side with the new axle, the supplied roll pin fell straight through the hole as if the hole drilled was too large. I had to mess around with the old pin to get a tight fit but it is in there and secure.

The passenger side isn't as bad, you can't pull the cup in and out but it still wiggles side to side slightly, there was no noise from this side. On this side though at the hub the old axle practically fell out of the splined hole (I was expecting to have to hammer them out) and the new one pretty much fell in place.

So did I get some dud axles or what? Is my gearbox munted?

Did I do something wrong? I have no idea where to even begin sorting this problem and I'd really hate to have to put the old axle(s) back on, they're so worn. Please help!

*Edit* should have said that this grumbling noise happens right from take off, at all speeds, I didn't get above 25 though before I returned home.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:55 pm

the more you do it, the faster you get at swapping these shafts.

did the inner doj fall out of place and look odd from outsidelooking at its boot ? Sometimes find they slip out inside the boot and need a wriggle back in.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Re use the old CV roll pins ?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:00 pm

Won't let me delete silly question above. Sam, try a look at your old CV inners splines, clean 'em up with som spray cleaner etc.
Um, where.d you get yer axles from? Part number? Part numbers the same on packaging ?

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:12 pm

Which one is the DOJ? I think these things have different terminologies around the place

The old inners slid on/off with about as much ease as the new ones, but one new one had big burrs inside from where they drilled the cross hole for roll pin, needed to be cleaned up before it would go on.

I got the shafts from the local Auto pro, asked for shafts for a Leone year 79-84, it came right up on their search with no queries which is unusual, Protex branded. Placed side by side the old and new looked identical. Dunno the part number off the top of my head, the boxes are in the recycling bin though I can check tomorrow. Is it possible they are refurbished units and I got a dud worn out one? They shouldn't be they were $150 each.

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:23 pm

how tight did you do the castleated nut up?

A good rule of measure is a 3 -4 foot long extension on a breaker bar which gets stood on for the final tightening.

It sounds like the outer CV splines are slipping in the hubs or the hub splines could be that worn that the shafts are slipping.

TOONGA

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:53 pm

That all sounds bad Toonga

With the castle nut I did it tight enough to snap our 1/2" breaker bar (1/2" 36mm socket) But that side didn't take a whole lot to undo it with the old shaft. If the new one is slipping how could the old one not have slipped? I did find it odd that the splined end just slid right in, but it wasn't excessively loose.

I was going to start sourcing new hubs anyway, but if this is the problem it's gonna knock the car off the road for ages, not an option as it's my daily. Going to jack it up again tomorrow and see if I can replicate the sound, might have to crack the nut again and inspect the splines...once again with this car I try to fix something only to wish I'd never touched it, getting very sick of this

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:17 pm

Mine are the same Silverbullet, If I grab the inner cups they have a fair bit of play in them, up and down and side to side. They dont make any noise that is audiable over all the other squeaks and rattles.

Jack up the drivers wheel off the ground and get someone to rev the motor in gear while your under there listening and watching. Should be clear where the noise is coming from. If you cant hear it over the engine, get the driver to wind it right up, then angel gear and kill the engine. As it winds down, playing with the brake should get some lashing happening. Its a good idea to chock the remaining wheels up. Also, might be a good idea if your really going to spin if fast to jack both wheels up as I dont know how well the diff will take directing all to one side.

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:16 pm

DOJ's are the inners on front and both ends on rears.

Hmm, you asked for Leone where Leone is FWD 5 sp. I have always asked for Brumby shafts - REPCO part # ended in 110....NSA110 New Shaft Assembly

Protex are new not reco's surely? No money in recoing them now with new Chinese stuff so cheap

Aren't the FWD Leone hubs different to the 4WD hubs ? Inner seal differences or something ?

The tight bit about hubs on axle in my experience always seems to be the grip the bearing inners have on the shaft and not the splines....

Can you knock the roll pin out and push the inner joint DOJ away off the stub to see if you can feel something awkward about it, jiggle it about - sorry, starting to sound like the hokey pokie song

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:31 pm

They are Protex PSA110, confirmed correct for Brumbies on this page
http://eziautoparts.com.au/pdf/Driveshaft_2009.pdf

Just thinking out loud here, does the roll pin have any other function than to stop the cup sliding off the stub? I'm saying if the roll pin was a tight fit all the way through and trying to spring apart as it should keeping itself tight, would the joint be as loose? Because at the moment my pin is too small in the middle, only big enough at either end to stop from falling out. Maybe if I get the next size up it would be a bit tighter.

And thinking about it further and having just moved the car out of the driveway I'm pretty sure the splined shaft isn't spinning inside the hub. The noise wasn't present reversing up the drive, and I would think the sound of splined teeth spinning inside a splined hole would make a hell of a racket. So I'm praying it's something simple/obvious that I can sort out tomorrow.

555Ron · Post by **555Ron** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:25 am

Silverbullet wrote:And thinking about it further and having just moved the car out of the driveway I'm pretty sure the splined shaft isn't spinning inside the hub. The noise wasn't present reversing up the drive, and I would think the sound of splined teeth spinning inside a splined hole would make a hell of a racket. So I'm praying it's something simple/obvious that I can sort out tomorrow.

I agree. Since the Brumby is handbraked via the front wheels why not pull it on and try driving. If the revs drop without the noise I would think you could safely rule this out.

I think you have a faulty driveshaft. I never trust the Chinese, I think they make faulty products out of spite... Very odd that the roll pin isn't tight. It doesn't take any load but could still make the noise. Maybe take it out and use a cable tie to see? Obviously don't go too far or over rough surfaces...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:28 am

See the common number 110 ? Must be becoming an industry standard numbering system - at least between REPCO and Autopro. Think you can rule out wrong shafts.

You would not have been able to drive if one stub was spinning inside the DOJ splines

I have had experience with a few Repco shafts and had to get one exchanged within 2 weeks ! Also had another supplied by a shaft builder that spat bearings out of the CV within weeks causing no motion. Consider you have done nothing wrong at all - might be the manufacturer .....

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:34 am

Someone in here has the MY factory manuals * cough* - they'd be a good reference for some finer detail like roll pin size. Just they sometimes have so much detail it is hard to find

Drill bit butt ends make good hole makers and measurers - maybe some factory tool fitted up wrong DOJ or made wrong size hole for roll pin

That catalogue pdf has under the L Series listing 79-84 PSA 110 - another fine detail missed by a parts catalogue. Importantly, there is only one listing for 79-84 front shafts the 110 , so not wrong part number supplied

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:00 am

The factory "MY" manual is available to everyone on the interbernets here

it isn't complete though but has the needed passages for this problem. (seems someone thought it would be a good idea to censor some of the electrical diagrams)

As for the problem take the split pin out of the castlelated nut, put your breaker bar and socket on said castlelated nut and using an extension bar literally stand on the bar to tighten the nut until it doesn't move, replace split pin and then take it for a drive.

Don't get under a running vehicle unless it has all 4 wheels off the ground on a hoist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Barry Cable springs to mind.

TOONGA

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:47 am

Just did that Toonga, no change. I also just jacked the car up and wiggled things around, nothing is loose or noisy except the inner joint. I went and tested one of the old shafts on my old gearbox I have sitting around and it has almost as much slop, so this couldn't be the issue.
I also started the car up and just idled in 1st gear with the wheels up, and the side that makes the noise doesn't spin only the passenger side (must mean there's some extra load on this side?) and I couldn't replicate the noise like this.

So I took it for another drive and sure enough the noise is still there, this time I took a video for you all to enjoy which captures the sound pretty well. The sound is definitely coming from the outer end of the axle not the inner. I've since taken that axle out and am putting the old one back in, there were no signs of slippage inside the hub. Only problem is the inner end slid right out of the cup and now I can't get it back in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI1x8YUz ... e=youtu.be

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:36 pm

Alright now I need help in getting the old shaft back together...this weekend has been one thing after another.

When I pulled the old driveshaft out the inner bearings slid out of the cup inside the boot, they just pulled right out very easily. I thought nothing of it since I thought they were going in the bin anyway. Now I need to re-install that shaft and the bloody thing won't go back inside the cup

:evil::evil: I've taken the clamp ring off to slide the boot off and have a look and I can't see any snap rings or anything stopping it from going in, it just gets stuck as soon as the 3 bearings touch their grooves in the cup

Just out of interest I got the "new" shaft and slid the inner cup up and down on the bearings and there's a horrible grinding sound, to me it sounds completely dry in there. The outer where the noise was coming from is almost too stiff to move around by hand, no noise though.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:12 pm

Just about ready to throw the whole car in the bin by now, this thing has given me nothing but trouble since day 1.

Where I'm at now is I put an axle in from my old wagon, I know they were worn but I just need the car back. The noise is still there

I drove it up to 60 and it still drives fine but the noise is there all the way, crunching grating noise increases with wheel rpm. Perhaps Toonga was right and it is spinning in the hub, but why does it still drive fine? And why didn't the old shaft do this? I'm seriously at my wits end here, another weekend completely wasted and extra stress on top. Dunno what to do now, do I swap over an entire hub off the wagon? A bloody headache and all my wheel alignment will be out, will need to bleed the brakes and I'll still be fiddling around my 6PM tonight.

Or do I just give up on this heap of crap, every time I try to fix something it just gets worse and I find a hidden issue that is bigger than what I was trying to fix. I'm totally sick of it.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:41 pm

To get you out of trouble. Put your outer cups from the old driveshafts back on the hubs, put it into 4wd and drive it around like that till you get some time to go over it.

The cups on the driveshaft should move around smoothly in your hand. If they are tight Id say something is up inside the cup. Your best bet would be to pop off the boot and have a look inside. If they are dry, put some grease inside them. Normal grease will work for a bit but Im pretty sure cv cups run a specific grease. Any grease is better then none though. If you have to cut the steel straps off of the boots, I would just do it and when you put it back together, put some cable ties around the cups till you can get some proper straps. I only mention this because I noticed the other day that both the inner cv boots on my vortex only have cable ties on them and they are still on

.

Sorry, I have no idea on how to get the cv joint back together.

Regards

Doug

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:53 pm

I know you tried putting it in gear with the front jacked up. Have you tried this with the handbrake on? The handbrake will lock up the fronts & will stall the engine, unless the axle is spinning inside the hub.

I would avoid driving around in 4WD onroad if at all possible as it will bind up the driveline & possible do damage incl snapping things

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:59 pm

Another thought...is the sound consistent with speed or with throttle application?

If the splined shaft is spinning inside the hub then this would happen more when accelerating/decelerating