Brumby getting tired and hot - no power

[Silverbullet]

Recently it's been quite hot here in Adelaide, alot of high 30's to mid 40's days. So of course those of us in old cars with no A/C notice it a bit more more than that my old car is definitely noticing it.

Here's the issue; Although the temp gauge never goes above half way on the Brumby even when it's 45C and sunny, at the end of an hours drive home it really struggles up the steep hill just before I get home. I always put this down to higher ambient temps causing a loss of power but it has definitely been getting worse no matter the weather.

A few months ago just after I had a gearbox change and new front axles, I could accelerate up that hill in 3rd gear from below 60. Further up where it shallows out and changes to 70 zone I could easily change to fourth and still had power to accelerate with no pinging. Now I have to hit the bottom of the hill at 70 in 3rd and it drops back to 60, if I push any harder it pings its heads off. Further up in the 70 zone I have to stay in 3rd at 70 it just pings too badly in 4th.

Then today, we have an incredible rain system going over due to drop possibly 100mm of rain and the ambient tempt is around 25C. Of course every major road was congested this morning and of course for some reason every single boom gate was stuck down and after 30 minutes of not moving the ute was getting cranky and so was I, turned around and came back. At the same hill now I'd been driving for over an our, could not even hold 60 in 3rd gear had to climb in 2nd gear! (that's a first) and could barely keep 70 in 3rd gear, temp gauge at 1/4.

So what is going on here? a few months ago I had power to burn and now every climb of that hill is a struggle. It must be something to do with the cars age I assume. Does heat soaking into all components cause this kind of performance loss? Timing is spot on, tappets are silent and I haven't changed fuel type/supplier. I've checked this engines compression 3 times in the past and it hasn't changed, so I doubt it's compression loss but I will check again. When I had new tight axles it drove so nice but still had the crunching grinding noise which followed through 3 gearboxes and 5 different axles so I ignored it. Now axles are clicking and obviously worn out since I have loose engine stay rod type symptoms. Maybe this is sapping power as well?

Getting really stressful going up that hill now, especially this morning I thought she wasn't even going to make it Perhaps it's just old car syndrome, no doubt more than one person will jump in demanding I EJ the ute but unfortunately that's illegal in SA, and this is my daily so I can't have any down time. Now if you read the above wall of text and still feel like giving some suggestions I would be grateful

[Point]

All the basics really

I'd be looking at fuel filters, and I'd blow out the fuel lines with compressed air. Make sure you blow it back into the tank to clear the fuel pickup.

Check your timing. make sure it's advancing as the revs increase. Check plugs are clean and gapped properly. Points (if you have them), or did you change something with the dissy? Make sure it's wired properly and not slowly destroying the coil and/or sparkplugs. I used the wrong plugs when I did a dissy conversion once and it burnt them out. That cost me an engine too....

[Proton mouse]

Yep I concur with Point, its going to be something basic. Fuel, air or spark.
Fuel :-
Fuel filters, esp the one that's often forgotten next to the fuel pump, under the tray.
Could also be stuff floating around the carbie or partially blocking a jet/orifice.
Try this old trick..remove air cleaner, rev motor really high, at peak revs smother the top of the carb with a good clean rag, all folded up, taking it off just before engine snuffs. Do several times.
This creates huge vacuum inside and can help clear small blockages.
Spark :-
New plugs, leads, points (and dwell set if points fitted) or even better, replace with electronic dizzy.
Air :-
New air filter if reqd.

Let us know how you go.
John
Ps There is one of those dashes you are after at a wreckers in Sydney. Looks good but it is however a non 4wd auto version. I'll pm you details if you are interested.

[AndrewT]

it's seriously impossible to put an EJ in? can't get permits for even an EJ18 (same capacity)?

[Silverbullet]

it's seriously impossible to put an EJ in? can't get permits for even an EJ18 (same capacity)?

Well not technically impossible but it is impossible to register it AFAIK. SA roads website says if the engine wasn't a factory option for that vehicle, you can't get rego. Might be a way around that with engineers cert (dunno for sure) One of the reasons I was so keen to find an EA81S for my wagon but that's another story

Thanks for the tips John and Point, sounds like I need to check all consumables and filters. It's an electronic dizzy and last oil change I did the tappets, checked the plugs and they were in perfect condition. Leads could be quite old, I've never replaced them. Dizzy cap is in good nick. I realized the other week I've never changed the air filter on this so I swapped for a used but better one I had, could have made a slight difference so I'll get a new one. I rebuilt this carb about a year ago and get great economy (even better in the hot weather oddly) but blockage could be a possibility. Back flushing the fuel lines with compressed air is a good idea never thought of that, although I might disconnect the line from the tank to stop all the crap being sucked back into the filters afterwards.

Thanks guys, this is why I love this forum

Oh and John thanks for the heads up on the dash, but Auto FWD is no good for me sadly

[Nubaru]

blocked exhaust ?

air filter good yeah ?

PULP 98 ?

Maybe a can of tune clean stuff down the intake ? SUEC

[Esubie]

blocked exhaust ?

air filter good yeah ?

PULP 98 ?

Maybe a can of tune clean stuff down the intake ? SUEC

I too was wondering if somehow it was getting low grade fuel. If anyone cared it might look strange when I put the expensive option in the old wagon.

Prob doesn't explain the gradual decline tho.

As the other guys suggested, start with the easy cleaning.

[Silverbullet]

I use regular 91 (98 is just too much money to spend on fuel for me) without any problems in the past, always from the same servo. I'm completely busy this weekend so I will gather the filters etc during the week and do the service next week, will keep the thread updated.

Oh and exhaust isn't blocked, but it certainly leaks from somewhere since the cabin fills up with exhaust only when coasting down hill, and only with the windows open, must be getting sucked in through the windows somehow

[pitrack_1]

Now I have to hit the bottom of the hill at 70 in 3rd and it drops back to 60, if I push any harder it pings its heads off. Further up in the 70 zone I have to stay in 3rd at 70 it just pings too badly in 4th.

I would suggest that the pinging under load indicates either a too advanced ignition, incorrect plugs or the engine's running too lean. You may also have some deposit buildup in the engine. Too lean running can cause serious issues due to the excessive heat and detonation (pinging)- valve damage (e.g. recession), piston melting/perforation, physical damage from the and consequent damage from the material flying around, contamination and pollution. As the problem is worsening, it's likely something's changing- deposit build up, plug damage or mixture leaning out.

1) Check the ignition base advance is correct and the advance is working properly for a start. You can try retarding the ignition 5-10 degrees and drive the car to see if it reduces pinging. Also you can try a higher octane fuel, but this essentially disguises a problem that really needs rectification. Too advanced an ignition can cause other more insidious problems.

2) Plugs: check the heat range and gaps are correct. Running the wrong plugs can cause either fouling, damage, or both. Too hot a spark plug for the application- can cause pinging and also will result in plug damaged. A fouled plug (perhaps too cold) will have deposits that can can cause pre-ignition (below). An overheated plug will look bubbled and/or glazed, perhaps with bits missing and in extreme cases, melted. Differences between cylinders indicate, of course, cylinder specific problems.

3) Carbon or deposit build-up. As these don't conduct heat as well as metal they get hot, stay hot and provide a non-tunable ignition source. See "A dusty tale". Evidence is run-on (engine doesn't cut immediately and smoothly when turned off). Or pre-ignition caused by deposit build-up. A fuel additive run through may help the deposit build-up, perhaps SUEC (Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner).

4) Lean running. An exhaust oxygen monitor/meter should be diagnostic. Perhaps your carbys are having issues and need cleaning/adjustment? Is the fuel pump working OK? Lean running causes excessively hot cylinder temps and can damage the engine (e.g. valve seat recession, piston perforation or melting) as well as increasing pollution (e.g. NOx). A rich mixture will cool the engine and mixture, reducing the risk of pinging but can promote deposits (amongst other things). A leak in the intake past the carby (e.g. at the manifold gasket or a disconnected/leaking vacuum hose) can cause lean running and may be indicated by a high idle- check for leaks. Backfiring during coasting and/or cutting out during acceleration (esp. suddenly opening the throttle) are also indicative of lean running. Non-standard carbys and/or components as well as incorrectly adjusted carbys can cause lean running.

5) Too high a compression- unlikely unless you've mechanically altered things. PULP would help alleviate issues here.

Hope this helps!

[RSR 555]

There's some very good points to check there. I would check the fuel filter and air filter.

[Silverbullet]

Thanks pitrack, alot of info to digest there I should say it never pings otherwise just going up that particular hill if I push it too hard. No backfiring when coasting either and the condition of my plugs last check told me it wasn't running lean but I will check again anyway. Advance is something that could be iffy, the vacuum lines were set up wrong for a long while but I thought I fixed them (after I re-arranged them it ran 10x better)

Cheers!

[FujiFan]

What year is the Brumby? does it have a catalytic converter - that my be the original and failing.

[Silverbullet]

84' year model, but not the original engine and no cat.

[Subydoug]

If your still running the hitachi double check the vacuum secondary opens freely. Id get a short piece of fuel line that fits onto the top of the venturi within the carby snugly and give it a blast with some compressed air. It should pull fuel thru the system and remove any crud thats built up inside the system.
I realise that probably makes little sense so here's a paint pic,

The red tube being the fuel hose you blow air down.

Short of pulling the carby down and cleaning it out its worked for me in the past. The other trick you can do is simply rev the motor up, then slap your hand over the top of the carby so it has to draw air thru the idle circuit, but it doesn't sound like you have an idle problem.

Id also get some emery paper or steel wool and give your disty cap contacts and disty rotor striker a quick scrub to remove any crud and oxidation.

A picture of a plug, particularly the ground strap, would be appreciated.

Regards

Doug.

[El_Freddo]

I'd be looking for a vacuum leak somewhere as this can cause a lean out situation. Replacing the air filter would help with this too - less restriction through the air filter = less vacuum leak.

Other things that come to mind are glazed bores, over revving or valve bounce.

Also, when you do a compression test you should do it with the engine at operating temps - same for the valve clearances. If you do your valve clearances nice and tight (read small) then you go for a drive where things warm up then you could potentially have leaking valves - this *could* be experienced most at high throttle and high load situations.

It's an interesting problem because there are times I think Sunnie the Brumby is pinging even at cruise, but the temp doesn't increase - even on a hot day - and it's been doing this for some time without any obvious internal damage. I think there's something that makes the noise like a detonation does, just haven't nailed what it is - I have my suspicions about the oil filler cap coming loose...

Cheers

Bennie

[pitrack_1]

Id also get some emery paper or steel wool and give your disty cap contacts and disty rotor striker a quick scrub to remove any crud and oxidation.

If it's old, a new cap + rotor button is a quick fix for this issue.

Had though about writing something about this too. I have a N13 Pulsar that once lost power (altogether) above 4000rpm. Confirmed going over Nowland's Gap at Murrirundi..i.e. uphill! Basically OK to 3000 then acceleration petered out smoothly above 3500. Holding it full throttle at the max (~4000 rpm) just caused the ECM light to come on.

I found the problem to be contamination of the dizzy cap by carbon. The inside of the cap was coated with carbon, I assume from central contact wear over time. Cleaning (scrubbing) the carbon from the cap and rotor button, plus cleaning the terminals fixed the problem until I got back and got new ones. It has an electronic reluctor based ignition so points weren't a problem. The cap/rotor was probably up to 150-200,000km old by that stage.

[pitrack_1]

It's an interesting problem because there are times I think Sunnie the Brumby is pinging even at cruise, but the temp doesn't increase - even on a hot day - and it's been doing this for some time without any obvious internal damage. I think there's something that makes the noise like a detonation does, just haven't nailed what it is - I have my suspicions about the oil filler cap coming loose...

A resonance or something loose in the exhaust system can cause this sort of noise, especially in/at particular rev ranges.

[ktmtragic]

Had similar problems. The vacuum for auto advance was not working. Not sure if this applies to the electronic dizzy

[Silverbullet]

Well maybe I'll have time to have a quick check of things tomorrow i.e dizzy cap and rotor condition. Stuck my head under the tray this morning to have a quick look at the filter under there, and there is some black crud sitting in the bottom of it, so need to replace that. Front filter was new when I put the engine in about this time last year, so no crud in there. ktmtragic this electronic dizzy does have vac advance, need to make sure it is advancing when revved up so it seems.

Thanks for the tips guys, hopefully with this I can get it back to chirping the front wheels in 2nd gear off the roundabout at the top of this dreaded hill

[Silverbullet]

Well I got a new air filter, rear fuel filter, plugs and leads and put them in today. I also was supposed to get a new coil but the only coil they had listed was "use with external resistor" type Checked compression, 155-160 on all four cylinders although #3 gave me a scare when it only read 120 the first time, then I see the compression gauge wasn't screwed down all the way (phew ) Timing was a little out (6 degrees BTDC) so I adjusted that to 8 degrees. All this made little difference as it turns out.

Then I get to the vac advance-vacuum hoses. At operating temp, removing the vac line from the dizzy does nothing, with the line connected revving the engine sees the pointer move away from the 0 mark on the flywheel. At idle, there is no vacuum coming from the hose I have connected to the dizzy. This hose only gets "ported vacuum" from the carby via 2 vac hoses connected to the carby. With the dizzy connected to a manifold vacuum source, the advance behaves alot more like it should yet the car is un-drivable (no power and makes a horrible sound a bit like pinging) I had this confusion before ages ago when the engine idled so lumpy it would almost shake the bonnet of it's hinges. Back then I had the vac advance hose connected to ported, AND manifold vac at the same time (D'oh) Separating them saw a smooth idle and better performance, but then the gradual decline up to now.

So I can only assume this engine/dizzy is not supposed to run on manifold vacuum, but there is no ported vacuum going to the dizzy from the carbie that I can tell Ugh what a headache. I quickly went to supercrap to get some new vacuum hose (all mine are going loose and probably leaking) and on the way back up the hill she still pings if I try 70 km/h in 4th up the less steep part, not even hot today either. On the plus side I got a spare Ryco air filter for half price

Oh and my exhaust is leaking something chronic and the hot dog rattles like crazy, I think time for an upgrade to a 2 inch system