Whirring input shaft, should i worry?

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:12 pm

no theyre not turning when u release the pedal
WHen u release the pedal, the thurst bearing moves completrely away from the clutch springs, adn touches nopthing, and the flywheel starts turning teh clutch and pressure plate causing the spigot shaft to turn at the same RPM, so the spigot bearing is doing nothing, not loosely spinning, its completely still, not still as in not doing anythign, but not moving around inside the flywheel.
im sorry im not sure how much more clear i can make it.
theyre not only not under load, they're not doing ANYTHING!
Note the certainty in boht mine and littlewhiteutes posts!!!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:47 pm

AndrewT wrote:I've had this same problem years ago in two different cars. Both times it was either the spigot or thrust bearing (I replaced them as a set both times) as the noise went after replacing them. Whether the bearings are "playing a role" or not doesn't really come into it. Just because they aren't under load doesn't mean they can't make noise. They are still spinning around after all. In fact in some situations if there is some wear or play in bearings wouldn't it make sense that they might make noise by rattling when not under load? As GOD said, there are many ways a bearing can fail.

It's next to no cost and an incredibly simple job to do. Whether you think it's the problem or not, just replace them to find out. I hope it doesn't turn out to be gearbox related, but if it does you haven't really lost much by doing this first.

By all means, do a complete rebuild on your gearbox at huge effort and expense before trying the easy/cheap things first....but you might be considered insane if you ever have yourself tested

Glad you've been inspired by Toonga anyways, let us know how it goes!

I'll take your opinion on board, each to their own, but as a mechanic for 30 years, I'll still say his noise is in the gearbox.

To prove it, he can pull the throwout fork back away from the pressure plate and the noise will still be there.

poprock1 · Post by **poprock1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:56 pm

I can't get as emotional as you guys; but what if a thrust bearing retaining clip has come adrift resulting in distortion of the thrust bearing when clutch is engaged, creating a rattle or whirr, but being stopped by pressure on the thrust bearing when clutch pedal is pushed in?

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:02 pm

littlewhiteute wrote:I'll take your opinion on board, each to their own, but as a mechanic for 30 years, I'll still say his noise is in the gearbox.

To prove it, he can pull the throwout fork back away from the pressure plate and the noise will still be there.

To prove it, he can pull the throwout fork back away from the pressure plate and the noise will still be there.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 pm

Poprock 1!!!
wow, have ppl been ringing around for any reason they can come up with to prove me wrong? thats a good attempt tho, but too far fetched, when i release just enough pressure to get the shaft spinning in neutral, i start to hear the whirring, so that is at the stage when there is still ample pressure on the throwout bearing. And this noise was happening befroe and after i removed enigne and did in fact play around with the retainer clips, and both are fine.

i dont know why i got so emotional about this, its just i started the thread hoping somone could tell me if new GB oil would stop a noisy input shaft bearing, or if anyone had experience takign them apart, and all i got was people telling me incorrect diagnosis, (except littlewhiteute) then when i tried to inform them of the probelm with their suggestions (quite politely too i might add) i get told im impatient (quote" patience is a virtue) and that the younger generation (im 24/5 or sumthing) are stupid.
Its a bit frustrating being told your wrong, when you are not, but in sympathy for the others, its also frustrating being wrong, hence the attempts from other to pick holes in my mechanical knowledge. (which i think is more sound than most mechanics)

FujiFan · Post by **FujiFan** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:55 pm

Both L'series I've had/have make noise when clutch pedal is DEPRESSED. Both had/have 200 000kms + with as far as I could ascertain original cluth ASSY's. Release bearing on 1st wagon I replaced was shot. Current wagon will let you know when get round to Clutch replacement, but I am certain is to the same problem. Old KE70 Corola I once had(5spd) also had same prob...

You must be seriously unfortunate to have a prob with the transmission.

Save yourself! try and find another need while your at it to seperate Engine and G/box as many times.

poprock1 · Post by **poprock1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:06 pm

Anyone seen that movie "anger management" ?

FujiFan · Post by **FujiFan** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Yes, I have seen Anger Management and quite enjoyed it. Generally speaking I like Adam Sandler flicks. They always seem to have a happy ending and a moral to the story, despite being slow to devolope the story and a bit of a pointless body to the film. Much like this thread and many others

However it all works out for the better!!!

poprock1 · Post by **poprock1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:24 pm

Touche!

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:03 am

lol - Funny about all this "proved right, proved wrong" talk. This kind of thing usually comes after something has actually been proven not before.
My approach in troubleshooting is to rule out cheap/easy things first - things which should be replaced as a matter of course anyway. It's served me well so far so I like to encourage it in others. Whether it ends up fixing the problem or not, there is little lost in doing so. You asked for advice, you've been given it, take it or leave it.
Let us know how you go, hopefully it ends up being a cheap/easy fix.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:08 am

haha fujifan are you saying i should do as much as possible when i have the gearbox out?
that is probably good advice, if i had the money, i'd comlpetely rebuild the gearbox, but im just gonna have to replace the damn bearings for now

BTW anyone know if GBox oil is meant to be clear? or have i just found that my gearbox is lubricated by water!!!

FujiFan · Post by **FujiFan** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:22 am

What I am saying is:
1)If your gonna go through all this for $20 worth of components, why not find something else that needs attention/upgrading.

2)Just tolerate it as I do till you have other business in such a task. Its not going to fail outright overnight.

3)If worst case scenario, at least your prepared for it. A second hand box would be easier than a rebuild, would'nt it!

4)Please make sure your understand my last post!

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:44 am

rebuilder wrote:haha fujifan are you saying i should do as much as possible when i have the gearbox out?
that is probably good advice, if i had the money, i'd comlpetely rebuild the gearbox, but im just gonna have to replace the damn bearings for now
BTW anyone know if GBox oil is meant to be clear? or have i just found that my gearbox is lubricated by water!!!

depends what kind of oil was used but unlikely it would be completely clear. You should be able to tell if it's actually water or not - is it slippery?

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:04 am

rebuilder wrote: BTW anyone know if GBox oil is meant to be clear? or have i just found that my gearbox is lubricated by water!!!

My oil is a german brand 100% synthetic and nearly clear. as long as it isn't water thin and has the viscosity of gear oil, then you should have gear oil in your gearbox.

TOONGA

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:35 pm

haha yeh, im kinda jokin botu the water thing, but yeh it is unsightly clear, bit of a worry.
Fujifan thats good advice, i guess a fault bearing is not goign to cause the gears to strip, its jsut gonna make noise, so i will take your advice, and change the oil, (if not to stop the sound, for peice of mind of the gears) and live with it untill something goes actually pear shaped!!
Cheers

Post by **Alex** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:08 pm

when my THRUST bearing was shagged it was making noise with the clutch not engaged. (ie depressed)

btw i have an unknown brand new thrust bearing at home. I'll find out the part no, if it fits, its yours(if you want it)

edit: just realised ive been reading it wrong the whole time haha.

its one fo those weird opposite sounding things, engaged is off the pedal, released is pedal depressed. (now my head is clear haha)

alex

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:40 pm

yeh to be hoenst i think ive been using the wrong terminology, ive been useing the word depressed thinking it means the saem thing as pressed. i dont know where i learnt that from...
but theh definition of depressed is Reduce the level or strength of activity in (something, esp. an economic or biological system).
so depress must mean let go of the pedal.
My appolgies!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:54 pm

The easy way around bad terminology is to use the correct terminology.

Depressed, in the case of a clutch (or any pedal) means pressed. But depressed would be the word to use. When the clutch pedal is depressed, the clutch is disengaged.

The clutch is engaged (driving) or disengaged (not driving).

So in this case, the clutch is engaged, the trans is in neutral, the box is "rolling over" with no synchro hub locked to the mainshaft.

The spigot bearing rotates with the input shaft since the clutch is "engaged" clamped to the flywheel. The spigot bearing could be completely cactus but DOES NOT move within itself, while the clutch is engaged.

If the noise starts as soon the freeplay is taken up - throwout bearing.

If the noise starts as soon as the clutch plate is running slower than the pressure plate/flywheel - spigot bearing.

rebuilder · Post by **rebuilder** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:19 pm

A hahah so i was in fact correct before!!
awsome
i think we should end this thread now, my brain hurts
but to clarify:
Depressed = Disengaged = foot to the floor
Released = Engaged = foot off pedal

FujiFan · Post by **FujiFan** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:11 pm

Yes Rebuilder you got it, all of it.
Side note. My current wagon had 10mths. Thought should change g/box oil when I got it as do with all cars. Drained it, wasted my time and clams. It was in good cond from previous owners - D'oh. Worst part is when refilling it the funnel poped out and got approx 1.5L of Multitrax on the slab

- double D'oh. See my point about making work for yourself.
End side note.

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