EA81 Brumby-no oil to rocker

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:55 pm

Hi everybody, Welcome to my first post,

I have a 92 Brumby that I have owned for only a short time, which came with all the standard issue oil leaks that I have successfully managed to rectify (big thanks to FROG for the parts). The worst leak was the oil pump. At the stage of adjusting valve clearance & replacing rocker cover gaskets(last of the oil leaks hopefully), came across a problem that no amount of searching can help me with.
There appears to be no (or very little) oil getting to the rockers on the RHS (drivers side), Nos. 1 & 3 cylinder.

The rocker gear also appears to be worn a lot more as compared to the other side, which is dripping with oil.
The car has 360k, is in good condition, passed for rego a month ago & drives reasonably well, just a bit rattly.

Thanks for any help,
Cheers.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:37 am

Hmmm, first post and you are thankng Andy already!
Must mean you need to rip the rocker assy off the head, involving cracking and removing a coupla head bolts ! To look for potential blockages.
One thing that comes to mind for you to consider, but not likely apply to your problem, but who knows its history .....it is said that the not sold new in cars in Oz EA81 hydraulic lifter version ran different bore size push rods likely larger though to feed more oil to hydraulic lifters ?? Oil feeds from head to rocker shaft, through rockers and down through pushrods...BS alert, may be wrong ....

and cracking a head bolt or two may likely cause HG failure if gasket not renewed, said may....

555Ron · Post by **555Ron** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:48 am

steptoe wrote:.it is said that the not sold new in cars in Oz EA81 hydraulic lifter version ran different bore size push rods likely larger though to feed more oil to hydraulic lifters ?? Oil feeds from head to rocker shaft, through rockers and down through pushrods...BS alert, may be wrong ...

As an aside, a double cross hatch on the push rods is EA71 pushrods, single cross hatch is EA81 with solid lifters, no cross hatching is EA81 with hydraulic lifters. Found it recently in the FSM...

Ok, I disagree with steptoe and say the gallery in the guts of the engine feeds the lifters, through to the pushrods and up to the head. I think you've got crap blocking the holes in the pushrods on that side, probably the other side too (not as bad, maybe not at all?) from lack of oil changes/maintenance. You would have to crack the two cam head bolts and may do the head gasket. Though I would like to put in steptoes disclaimer that I could be wrong but I just wanted to throw my 5c in...

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Thanks for the input ( & yes, Andy is my friend, Subaru dealer in town claims nothing is available for Brumbys, Supercrap Auto don't even stock oil filter or thermostat, thanks again FROG).
& correct, I don't know the history, it has an Aus. Comp. plate, numbers match up on body however I don't know if it is the original engine or if it has been rebuilt/replaced in the past.

I cant prove this but am reasonably certain the "honest" car dealer I bought the car off was well aware of the oil leaks & used some engine oil leak stuff, as probably did the previous owner.
When I drained the oil it came out in 2 stages, first it was a thick layer of black "stuff" that took forever, with the nice new fresh oil coming out last.

I took the rocker cover off the good side & started engine, it appears the oil comes up through the pushrods & am going with the solid lifter theory (I really don't think they are hydraulic) & that it has got a blockage.
If the blockage is in the oil gallery, can this be accessed/cleaned out, or is it inaccessible?

Can the pushrods be removed without disturbing the lifters? or do the lifters fall out & drop into the bottom of the sump somewhere? Or is it worthwhile trying some sort of engine oil flush? as I believe the rocker gear is just about stuffed anyway.

My Brumby now has a name..............Exxon Valdez.

555Ron · Post by **555Ron** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:21 pm

Skull wrote:Can the pushrods be removed without disturbing the lifters? or do the lifters fall out & drop into the bottom of the sump somewhere? Or is it worthwhile trying some sort of engine oil flush? as I believe the rocker gear is just about stuffed anyway.

My Brumby now has a name..............Exxon Valdez.

The Lifters are encased within the motor. If you wanted to get them out you need to split the block into two pieces. So yeah, you can - but I have had some pushrods pull out without the 'cap' on the lifter end of it so you might want to shine a torch to make sure the pushrod comes out in one piece. If not you'll need to get the sump off to fish it out. Unlikely (only happened on one of two in all the motors i've pulled apart) but a possible trap...

You could try engine oil flush. It's pretty cheap but i'd think it's not going to work. You never know your luck...

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:45 pm

If you take the rocker shaft off the pushrods just fall out. Take note of orientation with the cross hatch at one end of each rod, to put them back the right way round later. A hole in each end makes it easy to clean them out.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:27 pm

I did have a BS warning for good reason - mst have been a little sleepy when I typed that mistruth - of course oil goes in opposite direction to what i said !

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:12 pm

steptoe wrote:I did have a BS warning for good reason - mst have been a little sleepy when I typed that mistruth - of course oil goes in opposite direction to what i said !

Don't worry about it steptoe, I appreciate any help & thanks to everyone else for their response as it is a bit of a learning curve for me.
I was the idiot that removed the rocker cover & started engine to check......of course oil is going to go everywhere:-?
From what I can determine, it is a stock 92 Brumby with a standard EA81 engine (black rocker covers). So I am going to attack it with my tool kit this week & not looking forward to it if the head gasket decides to fail.

Covering all the bases, if the pushrods are found not to be blocked, where do we go from there? I tend to think the blockage is before the oil can get to the pushrods, or even the lifters for that matter. Would explain better why both pushrods on same side have no oil.

555Ron · Post by **555Ron** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:36 pm

There is a 1983 FSM floating around on the internet. Here is a screen shot of the oil system to help your trouble shooting. Having looked at the oil galleries in the disassembled engine - i really think the weakest link in the chain is the pushrods...

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:14 pm

555Ron wrote:There is a 1983 FSM floating around on the internet. Here is a screen shot of the oil system to help your trouble shooting. Having looked at the oil galleries in the disassembled engine - i really think the weakest link in the chain is the pushrods...

Thanks 555Ron, I have a copy of this manual as well as several others. That is what I am saying in reference to. If you look at the flow diagram carefully it shows oil enters the Left Main Gallery BEFORE it enters the Right Main Gallery. Is this how the galleries are channelled in the guts of the engine block in real life? or is it only depicted this way in the diagram, & all the others I have seen?

Remember we are talking about heavy duty black "stuff" removed from sump.
When I replaced all the O rings & gaskets on the oil pump, had to soak the lot in a bucket of kero until I was satisfied it was all clean.

Further, I have an oil pan gasket to replace, but I have not removed the sump as yet, so have no idea what is left in there.

It may come down to a question of what do I look at first? or just remove the parts that are the easiest to get to?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:50 pm

Was the black stuff something like engine honey ? I have stripped an engine I added stuff to and found it fell out with the engine oil when cold and sat lower than the engine oil when cold. Water does this too. As always there is a chance your car has been used and abused, may not have seen an oil change by some owners. An engine oil flush like Nulons may be worth adding before next oil change, use Diesel spec oils 15W40 with higher detergency and hope it make clean stuff out.

How is it under the rocker covers ? hard, dry crusty stuff ?

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:27 pm

Did the rocker assy not have oil feed to it via the head?

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:50 pm

Yes the black stuff was as stiff as maple syrup, drained when warm & sat lower than the engine oil. Oil & filter change was done immediately after I repaired oil pump, this is when I was aware that it was full of garbage (didn't drain oil to fix oil pump).
Checking the dipstick always showed clean oil, hot & cold, so this black gunk was obviously very thick & sat at the bottom.

The good rocker cover looks good on the inside, plenty of oil & looks clean.
The drivers side looks clean, it is just bone dry, I wouldn't say hard or crusty, gummy would be a better description.

There is no oil in water, or water in oil, I had this checked out before I bought it.
The engine doesn't blow smoke, there is no sign of oil in air cleaner.

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:59 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Did the rocker assy not have oil feed to it via the head?

No, the rocker gear is not getting any oil at all, from what I can see.
Is it supposed to get any oil feed other than from the pushrods? This may sound a little vague but I have never pulled 1 of these apart, just going by what I have read.

555Ron · Post by **555Ron** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:12 am

Skull wrote:No, the rocker gear is not getting any oil at all, from what I can see.
Is it supposed to get any oil feed other than from the pushrods? This may sound a little vague but I have never pulled 1 of these apart, just going by what I have read.

No, there is no oil galleries in the head. Pushrods are the only way of lubricating the top end.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:07 am

OK, might be my early morning BS coming along ....thinking EA82 head has a small o ring between head and cam box for oil feed for HVLA & OHC. The head gasket has an O ring built in for same oil feed I am guessing for hydraulic valve lash adjusters and cam.

Now, thinking back to our Oz delivered EA81's that are solid lifters - they just sit in the block, whereas the hydraulic EA81s sat in an extra sleeve - to contain oil for pushing further along the lube chain ??

I can visualise a hydraulic with internal guts full of oil squishing oil up the push rods centre - just can't visualise a solid lifter doing same as it has no guts to contain and pass on the oil ...

OK, do I have it ?? Easiset ?? try pulling just the push rods and see if they are clear from lifter end to rocker end ? May be a fluke that one side has gunked up for all four pushrods ?

Straw clutching I know, until you find answer......

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:45 pm

Yes. I have had a look, all that sounds correct. Solid lifters & the pushrods are the only way of lubricating the top end.

So the pushrods have to come out, if the blockage is somewhere else I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

If the head gasket decides to fail after reassembly, I will have no choice but to replace that also.

It is remarkable the rockers haven't self destructed before today, they obviously haven't seen any oil for thousands of K's. No. 1 Intake valve is the worst, when I checked the clearance it was about 2mm. No wonder it was making a racket!!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:51 pm

steptoe wrote:
I can visualise a hydraulic with internal guts full of oil squishing oil up the push rods centre - just can't visualise a solid lifter doing same as it has no guts to contain and pass on the oil ...

The lifter has a groove around the side which receives oil pressure from the main gallery.

The groove has a hole which feeds to the base of the pushrod cup in the lifter,
then the oil goes up the pushrod to the rocker arm.

Skull · Post by **Skull** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:07 pm

Firstly I couldn't completely remove the rocker gear, even though there are holes in the chassis rail to retract the mounting bolts, they still don't clear the head. Sliding the rocker gear out of the way is the best I could manage, with the engine in the vehicle.

Secondly there is not enough room to remove the 2 centre (exhaust) pushrods, but figured I didn't have to after inspecting the ones that fell out easily.

They were blocked, but not with what I expected. I blew them out with compressed air & some really clean "oil"? came out, it looks to be some sort of oil treatment, as I suspected. It is heavier than gear oil, honey coloured, as thick as epoxy resin when you mix it up before it sets.
Poked a rag under the 2 pushrods I couldn't completely remove, pushed a piece of garden hose on the end & blew the same stuff out, so hopefully the head gasket wont leak & this will solve the problem. Will reassemble tomorrow & give it a kick in the guts to see how it goes.

Confirm it IS EA81, solid lifters, single cross hatch on pushrods, cross hatch goes on rocker gear end & you can see the oil feed hole on the lifter.

I am really surprised this problem doesn't occur more often, or is it simply overlooked or ignored?

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:09 pm

You should be able to remove the rocker assembly with the engine in the car. Pulling the bolts all the way thru the chassis into the wheel well allows the assembly to be lifted out. Then to get the pushrods out I did pretty much the same thing, thru the chassis. pushrods completely blocked? Your probably right. 360k on the clock they were probably a little bit restrictive as it was and then someone tried to fix some oil leaks with gunk in the oil. Shortcuts never pay off

.

Hope she works for ya

.

Doug