Question about 4x4 Subaru drive trains. (Brumby L series wagon or similar)

[rodeobob]

Sorry if it offends anyone that I might be pilfering a Subaru for the good bits.
But I was wondering if any Subaru parts hoarder could answer a question for me.

If you took a 4x4 hi/lo gearbox and put the diff right up as close to the back of the gearbox as you could get it (say allowing 50mm for a coupling) how far apart would the axles stubs be???

Even just the separate measurements by themselves. Back of gearbox to front shafts and front of diff back to the shafts.

I chased up some pics via Google and its looking like using Subaru stuff might put the drive shafts too far apart. So I thought it best to ask.


Reason I ask is that I am wanting to make a small tractor type machine with a driven bogey setup. I had toyed with the idea of chain drives and what not as only a diff between each side is really needed, I was thinking of a Renault or VW type transaxle, then I thought of the Subaru drive train. It might actually be a disadvantage having open diffs front and back, I would assume that 4x4 is a locked center arrangement, is that right?? as opposed to the later AWD stuff which apart from the real good gear would be an open center diff.



Next question would be what the common diff ratio is?? or the one to look for, as a diff from a different IRS setup might get the axles closer together for me. Thats if they are too far apart as I suspect.

550mm is what I am shooting for. Could go 50mm each way. Could probably come in 50mm each end with CV joints.



Any help with the above would be appreciated.

Any advice on what box etc to be looking for?? The unloved, the frail etc.
I was thinking a 4 speed with Hi/Low would be just the thing. Out of an 1800 wagon. Was there a 1600 wagon??
There will be well less hp going in the front than the standard engine, its looking like 20hp at this stage. It will be reduced down below crank speed so not enough rpm to run an auto I would suspect just in case anyone was thinking of mentioning it.


Thanks in advance.

Bob.

[60766244]

Can't give you a lot of answers myself, but I'll bump the thread.

Nobody would be offended if you used Subaru parts for a project.

Only rule is, you've gotta take and post photos of whatever you end up building, with whatever you end up using. Very interested!

[rodeobob]

That goes without saying.

In appreciation for help and advice there would definitely be a build thread in it for all.


Anyone thinking it was too much info to give. IE; wander out blindly into the darkness armed with a tape measure in your best PJ's. Ive tracked down a bit more info.


Got a bit of a handle on the diff ratios. 4.4 4.1 Happy at that.

Got some approx gearbox measurements but later ones for the EJ motor. 622 & 647 were the two I found. Well the first I converted from inches.

The R160 diff will probably need swapping for something else. Its pretty long, but a measurement from flange to axle would still be appreciated.

Whos had a 4 speed dual range box apart??? Whats in the extension housing part on the back??? Could it be shortened up??

Keep in mind its a low RPM and low HP application.


Cheers.

[Silverbullet]

I've got an L series gearbox and diff in the shed, forgive me for not going out there in the dark with a tape measure If you haven't got an answer by the weekend I will post up the info.

[rodeobob]

Thanks, It would be much appreciated.

[purp]

I think any of the four speed dual range boxes (ea81) will have a 3.7 or 3.9 ratio - that is what the earlier five speed DR boxes (ea82) have.

Can you give us a hint what this project is? Sounds intruiging.

[rodeobob]

Bogey drive for a little machine.


2 on the right are for the ride on racer. Have everything, just need to make up an axle. And split the cases on the RG250 motor to replace the kick start shaft, cant be bothered, I just know the crank seals will be trouble, never had any luck with them.
2 on the left are for an old bolens ride on with a hydro axle in the back that Im going to tractorafie. IE make look more like a shrink rayed tractor and Ive got a little rotary hoe attachment to mount on the back. Scored some cheap trailer hubs off eBay the other day, silly me, should have asked, bought them home, 4 x 130 pattern, fit these wheels. I got excited, I thought Suby and Peugeot too, my uncle is a Peugeot nut, then the penny dropped. Super bug or type 3, pretty damn useless really or really good score. Jury is still out.

The 4 in the middle are for this project. Ford stud pattern. 18 x 8.5 on a 10" rim. Off a John Deere of some sort.
I wanted 4 of the more tractor looking 12" wheels above but he only had a pair each of two different types left. So I got the matching 4, the 5 stud pattern also sold me.
I started out thinking of machining shafts and flanges and buying pillow block bearings. Then I started pricing them up.
So Ive been chasing up Magna or Camry front hubs and drive shafts for that bit. I got a VL Verada accident damaged auto trans shafts hubs brakes for $30 on eBay picking them up on Sunday, I hope, guy hasnt got back to me yet.
Inboard brakes of some sort on either the trans or on the diff. I doubt I will go all four, 2 will be plenty.
Cobble the shafts together. Im even toying with a steerable bogey but I doubt there will be enough left between the CVs for that.

Ive got a mate with a Scrap yard so Im sure I can get another set off a Magna.
Probably also the Subaru stuff, if I wait.
If not, I could buy a whole car to get what I want. But having no means of moving a car myself (only got a little hatchback, well it is part ute) I would like to buy just one car. I could scrounge bits at Pick a Part and the like but that can get a little expensive if you dont have your head around what it is you actually want. Buying one car is cheaper.

If it works out to be too much between the axles with the subaru stuff, given the early box runs heavy weight gear oil and the front shafts are low in the front of the box, I might get away with angling the nose of the box down a bit and spinning the rear diff around 180 (and flipping it if I have too, never can work that stuff out unless its in front of me) and chain drive down off the yolk (with a support bearing) to the nose of the pinion.


3.7 or 3.9. Beggars cant be choosers. But it is sort of in the ball park where it might make another IRS centre with a shorter nose a bit hard to source. maybe euro stuff, BMW or Peugeot.
The actual ratio matters naught, 8 gears is plenty and at 1/3 the speed going in it will crawl along in first low even if the ratios add up to being a bit high. If it ends up being totally off I could alter the input ratio.


My only other thoughts were IRS diff from 2 cars the same, flip one. Then get a divorced transfer case from a Suzuki or Mitsubishi or Lada or some other exotic. Put a cheapo 4 speed up in front of that. Got a Gemini box here, also an aussie 4 speed my old housemate gifted me. Or just get a 4 speed out of an older 4x4 complete with transfer case.

Anyway, have a bit of time to work it out. Theres a few projects ahead of it on the list.

Sorry that blew out to be a bit long winded.

But I do like suggestions and ideas, sometimes I get a bit one tracked.
Cheers.

[El_Freddo]

Sorry if it offends anyone that I might be pilfering a Subaru for the good bits.

Bob, you can have all the 4 speeds you want

If you use an EJ gearbox be sure to weld up the centre diff to lock it for good It's basically an L series 5 speed box but the low range isn't as good. It just gives you some options.

But, if you come across an L series 5 speed box with a centre diff and diff lock I'll happily swap you two PT4wd 5 speed boxes for this one - as these L AWD gearboxes really are one of the very good bits if you use it for what it's designed for...

I'm keen to know more about this bogey - I can't picture exactly what you're building!

Cheers

Bennie

[Bantum]

You want something like this :



More on the 'Scoobygator' ...

There's another one floating around on here somewhere too !

[Bantum]

There is also this :





More details here ...

T'was it more in line of what you were thinking ?

[Silverbullet]

I have the numbers! These are roughly right, probably +/-5mm

Diff:
Front face/flange to stub center: 405mm/16"
Overall length: 500mm/19.75"
Height (measured from floor when the diff was sitting flat) 210mm/8.25"

Gearbox:
Front face to stub center: 6"/150mm
Rear face to stub center: 580mm/22.75"
Overall length: 730mm/28.75"
Height (from floor to top of flywheel housing when sitting flat) 410mm/16.25"

Hope this helps

[El_Freddo]

Gearbox:
Front face to stub center: 6"/150mm
Rear face to stub center: 580mm/22.75"
Overall length: 730mm/28.75"
Height (from floor to top of flywheel housing when sitting flat) 410mm/16.25"

Is this the PT4wd 4 speed or the PT4wd 5 speed box?

Cheers

Bennie

[Silverbullet]

Oops should have said PT 4WD 5 speed, out of an L series.

[rodeobob]

Thanks for those measurements.

So 405+580.
By the time I get the two coupled together I doubt I could get that under a metre. Might have to look at putting the diff under or over or back to front or something.
Ive also got an eye open for a 4x4 transfer case or gearbox thats going cheap. Then just get two IRS centres from the same car and flip one over.

I like this one.


Sort of like this

But I had a look at the link and the guy has bulked it up heaps.
Would have been easier to remove the panels and roof from a car and then put bar work on it.

So sorta like that chassis in the pic but smaller and more compact, I want the drive shafts close enough together that I can have 650mm between the centres of the wheels. Im aiming for an outside of tyre to outside of tyre width of 1200mm.

A walking beam on either side, so beam with a centre pivot with a hub at each end.
Hubs from a Mitsubishi Magna turned over 90deg to use the strut mount at the top to fix to the beam. I might toy with mounting off the lower ball joint to get some steering action.
Cobble the Subaru inner CV to the Magna outer CV, set the beam travel limits to a bit less than the CV's bind limit. It wont need a great deal of articulation.


Will be a while before I get started on it.

Thanks again for the measurements.

[Jeff]

Google STi Quad, you may find some usefull info there

[Bantum]

Found this, might be of interest :



More here ...

P.S. - Found the Page I was looking for :

showthread.php?t=14750

It has the yet untested quad bike ...

[rodeobob]

Awesome stuff. Thanks for the links.

Yeah I remember the STI quad. Damn crazy Kiwis. Have you seen the single rotor powered ride on mower?? Another crazy Kiwi thing.