2005 turbo forester wont start. Any ideas?

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:46 pm

They saw the weird sparking on two cylinders only and assumed it was electronic. They tried to find out details about this, nobody had ever seen it before and they have many years worth of contacts at Subaru dealers.

Thats where I was asked to measure the electronics, bottom line it looked good, they also had another scan tool analysis done, same thing, ok. Computer tested ok.

Through contacts, there were some people high up in Subaru spoken to about this, never seen it.

The workshop assumed the motor was not capable of making the computer do silly things.

That was where they idea of checking the motor properly was brought up.

It's still not going, we will see what happens when the motor is fixed. If it runs, then its a strange thing this model ECU does, when the motor is not perfect.

Ventilated points, good condensor and a coil are much nicer than crap like this.
Back in the old days things were simple, Brumby's rule the world hey Jonno.
But they didn't go as good, gotta compromise somewhere.

Its intersting to see what a simple engine change can turn into.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:57 pm

tambox wrote:80, 90, 110, 120 PSI.
The "good" engine is being sent back to the engine supplier, with the rest of the car, for them to sort it out.

Why was was it only sparking on two cylinders??
It seems the ECU cycles through a start up proceedure over and over, no fault codes as the rpm is to low when cranking.

Will see if it starts when the engine is fixed.

Sounds like someone fitted the timing belt incorrectly at one stage and now we have some belt valves.

Yes it's still strange that it won't spark all cylinders. I wonder if the ignition module is ok?

steptoe wrote:I admire the member that suggested go back to the basics fuel , spark and compression.

Thanks

steptoe wrote:Gotta love the wreckers that sell "good engines" Even my low compression 7.7:1 EA82T's run 130 psi, and the Vortex 150 ! How's an EJ go so low ? Cooked and shrunk the pistons?

I'm going with losses through the valves.

tambox wrote:Back in the old days things were simple, Brumby's rule the world hey Jonno.
But they didn't go as good, gotta compromise somewhere.

Its intersting to see what a simple engine change can turn into.

Yeah.. Points (or even electronic) dizzy and a good carby or 2 never seems to have this much trouble.. Bring back the biff.. oh.. I mean bring back the Carb !!

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:53 pm

Agree with the bent valve diagnosis. Sort of like mine and Tazas impreza, except more extreme (Ours runs/ drives fine).

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:32 pm

Were the injectors firing? Maybe the bores got washed from flooding? Did you try giving it a squirt of oil or did it fall into the "not our problem" catagory?

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:56 am

jumped timing belt on impact - hence the donor veehicle bcoming the donor ?

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:40 am

The photo of the car the motor supposedly came out of was a rear damaged car, but the motor had a dent in the harmonic balancer. The motor was checked by the supplier and was sold as a good running motor. The workshop believed them and put the motor straight in.

Valves would seem to be the problem, the worshop was sick of this car, any excuse to pass the problem onto somebody else was jumped at.

The injectors and the spark were firing on only two cylinders in a pattern, the ECU fired them as it went through the start cycle, then nothing, then start cycle...... The motor kicked as they fired.
The other two cylinders had no spark or injector, except for the initial one spark, one injector when cranking was started after a 30sec pause.

Fun to play with these damnfangled electronic thingi's, learn more about them all the time.
So far we have been told lots of stories about these motors and their electronics, a lot of them crap, but interesting.

I will see how well it runs after the engine fix, if it runs, if not it looks like the computer will be swapped.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:13 pm

It's got me intrigued now to find out why only 2 cylinders would partly fire

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:02 pm

Ask Subaru, they will know.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Has anything on the cam belt been changed? I've only read this page between other things and have seen others say it sounds like bent valves - I was wondering if a cam gear has been swapped and an incorrect one fitted - one that doesn't have the appropriate cam sensor tabs on it.

Something to look into maybe.

Cheers

Bennie

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:13 pm

tambox wrote:the motor/loom swapped, then it would not start.

Which part of the loom?

Do you still have the original engine and loom that came out of the vehicle? Thinking it could be as simple as swapping the intake + wiring and sensors to what was originally in the vehicle.

That compression seems severely low too.

I'm with Jonno - EA81 it

Cheers

Bennie

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:11 am

All the sensors/pulleys etc that it was driven in with have been fitted, other matching loom/sensors tried, still no go.
Cam timing done may times.
Not only is the compression severely low, its also severely varied.

Week 5 now, waiting to see what the engine suppliers do with it.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:09 pm

Time to trade 'er in ...push it down the road before the yards open, park it, and just point to it and accept their offer . Seen a few used dealers get stung almost like that not so long ago

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:47 am

We have an answer.
The motor was bought as a checked, going motor, the engine supplier got it from another interstate supplier. The engine was supplied, fitted with new rocker gaskets, cam belt, pulleys checked/replaced and new cam/crank seals, ready to fit.

When one of the inlet cam seals was changed, the cam gear was not located properly and it pushed the locator pin back through the camshaft.
This meant one inlet cam ended up about 90 degrees out of sync to the gear.

Thats why the ECU was confused.
The timing gears/belt were correct, this motor has dual cam sensors, located at the back of the cams, not on the timing gears.

The readouts from the Subaru analyser make sense now, especially the bit about one cam advancing and the other not.

Complete motor is being replaced by supplier, due to valve/piston damage.

Will know for time:D

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:00 pm

The puzzle is finally solved!

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:02 pm

Oh.. ok, so more of the story comes out. Glad to hear that the problem was found. So much for a "running engine" I guess it was until some clown decided to stuff up the AVCS

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:34 pm

That's one of the problems with being asked to check something, where the people asking, feel they have checked everything else or believe it is good, so it has to be the bit you are checking.

Much easier to do the whole job.

Learnt more about the starting sequence of those motors and have a lot more faith in the Subaru analyser, even though its owner reckons its crap. Not going to bother to suggest its not the analyser thats crap.
What the engine electronics were doing made it more confusuing as everyone was blaming the electronics for not working properly as they could see it was not doing what it should. But it actually was.

Still waiting for c/o motor No2 to be fitted, week 6, glad I'm not dealing with the owner on this one.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:49 pm

Yeah.. I bet you don't

and I hate coming 1/2 way through someone's work.. in the end, it's easier to start all over from the begining

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:05 pm

So true.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:41 pm

tambox wrote:We have an answer.
The motor was bought as a checked, going motor, the engine supplier got it from another interstate supplier. The engine was supplied, fitted with new rocker gaskets, cam belt, pulleys checked/replaced and new cam/crank seals, ready to fit.

When one of the inlet cam seals was changed, the cam gear was not located properly and it pushed the locator pin back through the camshaft.
This meant one inlet cam ended up about 90 degrees out of sync to the gear.

Thats why the ECU was confused.
The timing gears/belt were correct, this motor has dual cam sensors, located at the back of the cams, not on the timing gears.

Awesome news. Glad it's finally being sorted. Not meaning to blow my own trumpet, but the cam gear suggestion wasn't far off, even though I was talking about (what I now know is) the older setup with the tabs on the cam gears...

Hopefully the owner will be happy with the outcome, even though I'm sure they'll be pretty pissed about a 6 week car out of action - I know I would be!

Cheers

Bennie