Supercharger for Subaru?

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littlewhiteute
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Post by littlewhiteute » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:21 pm

BaronVonChickenPants wrote:Sorry to be the bringer of bad vibes, but I have explored this possibility myself and found the following flaws in the theory:
  • The standard EA81 does not take kindly to forced induction due to it's long intake passages, the dual inlet twin carb EA81 or EA81T heads would be required to overcome this. Unfortunately these are rare and big $$$.
  • Most carbs do not handle being pressurised as their basic principles rely on suction and gravity to get fuel into the engine. Positive pressure will usually just force air backwards through the fuel jets emptying the fuel bowl. There are carbs that are designed for positive pressure, unfortunately these are rare and big $$$.
  • One alternative is to run the super charger in a suck through arrangement, but unless the charger is designed for it, this will drastically shorten it's life expectancy.
  • Another is to adapt an EFI system in place of the carby, the SPFI systems from Camira's or EA Falcons are common choices.
In short, to do this properly will require a lot of time, a lot of expense, a lot of trail and error and result in an overly complex and potentially unpredictable beast for minimal gains.


For a reliable increase in power an EJ really is the way to go, even just an EJ18 is a nice unit.


Jordan.
Jordan,

I'll agree with most you have said, all very good points.

Never heard of that one, forces the fuel back through the jets.

Nearly any carb can converted to blow through, you just need to know what to modify.
The first is it MUST have a Nitrophyl float, a hollow float of any description will collapse under boost pressure.
The modification list is extensive, hence why suck through is easier.
Regards

Gary ;)

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Post by steptoe » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:23 pm

Four cylinders on LPG blow through with turbo does not work with Impco gear unless you are Steve rising sun, creates some weird intake pulses that upset the converters signals from the mixer

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:58 pm

Interesting write up on the Sprintex sC. an impressive unit this twin screw.

http://autoxcooper.com/sprintex-booster-m45.php base unit around $1700. a kit to suit the cooper mini around $3200.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:05 pm

Tweety wrote:a kit to suit the cooper mini around $3200.
Are you going to do a cooper engine conversion to help with the SC fitment? :twisted:

Personally I think that's a bit high in price, but then again, I'm not trying to make my engine look f'bling good either!

What's with the "base model" SC anyway, I didn't know there were different levels of SC - or is this the setup/capacity level costs?

Been saving yet?

Cheers

Bennie

PS - I'm having no luck finding that bloody bracket, I've only found one half of it so far! I'll keep my eye open though, it's sure to turn up (when you don't need it :()
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:19 am

Supercharger for Tweety ??

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DUAL-Superch ... 3a6ec8c9e0

And as you are pretty good nutting things out you won't need the instructions - as they plainly state instructions not included :D

Not the cheapest one there either.

For poops and giggles maybe fit one @12.99 free postage on the outside as a roo scarer !! Imagine if this thing disintergrated , spitting little turbine blades down yer intake , blimey !

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Post by Tweety » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:38 am

Actually Bennie, its highly unlikely I'll touch the engine except small mods when the time comes. But I like to keep my options open. A cheap S/H 14 might be a possibility but with all the issues fitting it seems likely a nightmare waiting to happen.

Tweety tows Guppy quite well but I'm not a towing guy...no patience and 80-90 kph, the correct towing speed is a little boring for me. So to grow some patience and take hills a little slower I'm better off hooking up a good stereo and firget about making Jupiter quickly. That "base price" was just the S/C only, bare, the $3200 was for a kit for a mini with all the hanging off bits that some would /could be adapted for the ea81. They "Mick" of Sprintex suggested a performance mob to do the complete job.

Good one Steptoe. I've already scanned the google for cheap electric superchargers which included this peice of crap. there are plenty of forums covering frauds and scams. Besides, a while ago I purchased two 12 volt hairdryers to adapt for a heater demister for tweety's figged up windscreen...wodnering how I can use them to demist then utilise them to blow cold air intake for Tweety's carby....lol. Warp speed!

Clarification.

I think I'm all for bolt on power plants if they are

- just that bolt on
- proven
- relatively low cost
- doesnt shorten the life of the engine/trans eg melted pistons etc.

Thats a tall order guys. But with the end costs of this machine on the wrong end of 50 grand one has to conserve. Semi retirement is working but the funds are far less.

A s/hand Toyota 12 or 14 might be the answer so its the track I'm reading up on now. I hope this makes commonsense? what about an ea81 turbo? bolt in, proven, low cost ???

Does anyone know if any supercharger addition is considered an accessory by Vicroads or an engineers certificate required?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:52 pm

Clarification.

I think I'm all for bolt on power plants if they are

- just that bolt on
- proven
- relatively low cost
- doesnt shorten the life of the engine/trans eg melted pistons etc.

Thats a tall order guys. But with the end costs of this machine on the wrong end of 50 grand one has to conserve. Semi retirement is working but the funds are far less.

A s/hand Toyota 12 or 14 might be the answer so its the track I'm reading up on now. I hope this makes commonsense?

Does anyone know if any supercharger addition is considered an accessory by Vicroads or an engineers certificate required?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:27 pm

be more than an accessory :D they as most RTA's would be concerned not for the power but noise and fuel emission changes to the engine. I ordered a $13.99 jobbie - they aren't electric either, think the vanes one side to the other have a pressure or volume difference , thinking it may make an interesting pencil sharpener :D

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Post by Tweety » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:57 pm

Think tweety would pass the noise test

Trikes are exempt from pollution restrictions. t'is why VW engines are in trikes in the first place with no anti pollution stuff. And why my engineer told me I can pull off all the crud from the brumby donk.

if the unit you buy doenst work....use it to power a model airplane. they use ducted fans up to 45,000rpm on lithium batteries. I know this as I flew them. And isnt hard to overheat those batteries which occured once to me. I built a batplane, swing wings like f-111. The wings were operational by means of a quarter inch continuous thread with micro switches at each end so the motors would stop.

The batteries overheated on its maiden and last flight less than one minute and the plane caught fire. Everyone was yelling for me to land it but the thrill of a plane going up in smoke was too tempting (ala Adams family emntality uncle Fester). Was like WW2. Pity it wasnt filmed. Yes, Robin even had a parachute but didnt have time for him to bail out. Batman was decapitated and 12 inches in mud. Local flying club history.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:07 pm

steptoe wrote:- they aren't electric either, :D
Too short - I'll give you too short

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:52 pm

I've done a lot of reading on superchargers.

The twin screw maybe the Sprintex is the ants pants but at $1700 for a base unit plus the extras dont think thats in the pipeline for a some time.

The SC14 Toyota unit with its clutched pulley - a good S/H unit would be much cheaper. From what I've read though this unit is better with fuel injection.

Frankly I'm a bit confused. Would ideally like a good S/hand SC of any description (I'm not after heaps of boost, want my engine to last), have sufficient room for it over the dizzy/ thermostat area, easy hook up to crank pully etc. willing to use a suitable carby. I noticed some SC's use a single SU as a sucking arrangement. Then I'd sell my weber 32/36.

What is your knowledge of all this bearing in mind I dont have a room problem to instal any SC now the main Sud radiator has been moved to the front of tweety?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Tweety » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:26 pm

This is a pic of a 202 Holden engine with SC14. a blow through set up apparently expensive to set up. the previous ownerhad a suck through set up with less boost.

With a SC14 how does the suck through set up installed...a spacer between the carby and manifold?

This whole Sc thing confuses me (how its hooked up, valves, hoses etc but keeps me interested....

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Tweety » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:56 pm

Here are a few comments from owners of SC14 superchargers on their engines


Hey buddy i have a S/C 14.....

"

By als tg g180 08/05/08@06:28


Hey buddy i have a S/C 14 supercharger on my 1600cc gemini engine as a blowthrough set up. every one thinks i mad but it works. Castle main rod shop do conversion kits fot the holden straight sixes for around $1800 that is suck through set up but it will work better as a blowthrough as they have see bigger horse power out.
Email me if u want any info on what to do at
[email protected]
I have tryed everything to make my gemini go hard and this is the best thing i have found.

» reply


SC 14. Holden 6

By sketch 08/05/08@07:37


A Holden 6 goes ok with the SC14, mate of mine has one on a blue 202, damn they make a racket when they wind up, or his does does anyway.
Forced induction is always the way to go for power, especially these days as its a common modification. One thing that i remember that sdtood out when my mate fitted his was that he didnt use a big cam, moreso a cam that had neutral to negative overlap... say 3degree's. Reason being is that the inlet charge is under positive pressure, so huge overlaps will cause the fuel/air mixture to be pushed out the exhaust.
I think $1800 is an old quote, i believe they want around two and a half grand for the setup now. I couldnt see them getting much more expensive than that or you'd be better off going for a Vortech charger."


Another site was really helpful


http://oldschool.co.nz/phpbb/viewtopic. ... 0&start=40

that site lists the items I'd need.

SC14
SU carbie 2 inch preferable
5mm of thicker mild steel for mounting brackets
piping
pulleys
boost guage
mad max switch

SC14 rated redline at 10,000rpm for max boost. So have to work out the pulley sizes to achieve the 6psi boost I'd be looking for.

Finally boost retard system on my electronic dizzy done by a performance mob.

Hope I'm not boring you guys but this is now looking feasible/desirable...anyone got a SC14?

Here is a Gemini with a sC14 you can see the SU carbie lower right. with the ea81 the SC would be above the engine with a very short pipe into the manifold.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:48 am

This pic shows a weber 32/36 hooked up to a SC14. maybe I dont even need a new carby after all.???

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Tweety » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:40 pm

Well youtube supplied a few sC14 videos of holdens mainly with the engine and blower working. Hell! didnt expect such a whining noise. It would drive both Debbie and I nuts.

Just one of the things I like to check out before, down the track I make a decision. And enclosed engine bay is not what Tweety has. Debbie sits above the engine.

The sprintex appears quieter, most advanced, very compact etc. On their website they have a blower calculator which is real handy. Type in max engine revs eg 6500, engine capacity and have the SC spinning at max revs at max engine revs and you get a calculation of hP etc.

http://www.sprintex.com.au/sprintex/contact-atg/

It will mean forking out $1700 for the base blower plus carby hoses pullies etc. more thinking time required. They have adapted one for the mini automatic. tweety is auto.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Tweety » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:22 pm

This is the "quick view" of the smallest SC sprintex sell. nice info.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... -PnAtpl5pw
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by Davidov » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:01 am

The SC14 will produce over double the boost of the small sprintex, roughly the same as the largest sprintex. However can be had for $400.

Although it is true that they are loud as hell, the same can be said for all superchargers. I dont think there is a supercharger that exhists that doesnt make a fairly loud whine.
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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:19 am

Thanks for your comments Davidov

I've noticed how different the SC's are in design.

The roots type, the spinning turbo shape snail shell (vortech) and the twin screw (Sprintex and Whipple). So I feel there might be a decibel difference and a unit with less decibels is worth pursuing for my trike due to the open engine bay. Vids of cars with the SC14 worry me with the noise factor. Tweety is a real good cruiser and noise would determine its cruisability.

Also I have a vW auto. This unit although robust enough it is questionable as to how much boost I deliver to the engine to test the auto's breakability. VE auto's are rare as rocking horse crap as they have been snapped up by trike builders. So really only want say 8psi max, likely 6 psi and not a rev head say it delivered its extra power and torque from 1200 rpm to 4500rpm I'd be very happy.

Spintex make a unit or modify a unit for the new mini automatic- because it is auto. Dont know why, maybe due to pressure on changes places stress on the blower??. But the SC14 did come from a SC'd Toyota crown and that car would be auto. Its all confusing due to lack of real info on the web. maybe I need to buy a book?

Sprintex will sell me their smallest unit 5S-150 for $1700. This sounds a lot but an extra $1300 over and above a good SC14 could be justified if it is a little quieter and of course it is more compact. Being smaller in capacity it might have spin off's, like better fuel economy, less need for larger jets, etc. The more I read the more I'm learning about these units. eg the Sc14 is designed for blow through. Draw through with it and some say that the mix of fuel with air will shorten its life (premature wear of the teflon coated tips). Some go through sC14 at regualr intervals. I'd rather wait and save more for a new unit if it has benefits that make it feasible.

I'm keen whichever way I go but it has to not be a gamble, waste of hard earned cash. That's where the sC14 has an edge as you say.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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Post by B00sting » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:29 pm

Well I can help you out with the boost retard cost, I had it done on an rx7 dizzy and it cost around $250AUD. it was used in a turbo application.
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Tweety
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Post by Tweety » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:51 pm

Thankyou BOOsting.

All this info is good. $250 eh.

What we need is a complete Subaru ea owners guide to supercharging/turbo charging instead of taking the search route for bits and pieces of info all over the place incl USA.

eg found some really good convincing info that crushed the concept of electric supercharging today, in a mathematical way that even I could (nearly) understand. lol. Although that method might just be possible one day soon it doesnt convince me just yet that it is feasible.

Maybe once I compelte a SC instal I can put pen to paper and make a sticky. Esp if its a cheaper sC14 install to include all the bits and pieces one needs to purchase to get it going ok.

I did research the intake manifold. Very itneresting because I read where it is stepped inside it. This allows for even mixture to all cylinders on the ea81. If one was to make their own maniflod (eg for a cooler set up and better breathing/design) then if this stepping is not included one rear cylinder will run lean....arhhh dont ya love education!!

Two eyars ago I had zero assistance from trikers about advice to build a roof on tweety so designed one myself. Now I'm the "go to" guy if they consider such a project. Maybe one day I'll be the "go to guy" for SC's on ea81's.....and maybe not lol
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tweety trike- EA81 (full reco 2014) 32/36 weber, SPFI manifold, 9.5:1 CR, VW auto.

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