My Clutch is ROCK HARD!!! but why?

amk · Post by **amk** » Sun May 31, 2009 2:35 am

I got an Ej20G in my Leone, I was using the original gearbox of the Leone to run the car then it got messed.

I went out got an STi competition gearbox 4:11 with flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing. The gearbox is 2nd hand so is the flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate and release bearing.

I removed the cable system of the old clutch and modified a hydraulic clutch system. I have connected the clutch master cylinder pipe directly to the gearbox, is the correct?
The clutch is so hard, rock hard. The gears engage though but the clutch is very very hard can’t even balance.

What is the problem? Where have I gone wrong?

Need help.

Thanks

Regards,

Amk.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:53 am

amk wrote: I have connected the clutch master cylinder pipe directly to the gearbox, is the correct?

This is *roughly* correct. The pipe from the master cylinder should be connected to the slave cylinder (which is bolted to the gearbox). Did you get fluid flowing through to the slave cylinder while bleeding the hydraulics?
Are you able to post any photos of your completed setup?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:58 am

I have connected the clutch master cylinder pipe directly to the gearbox, is the correct?

do you mean the master is on the box or that you have put a slave cylinder on the box and the pipe is running to it from the master because if you have just a master on the box you will have no adjustment to the clutch it will be on or off

this could help

Code: Select all

http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/files/Clutch_Linkage_Installation_Tips.pdf

TOONGA

Busdriver · Post by **Busdriver** » Sun May 31, 2009 11:20 am

You definitely need a slave cyl on the box as stated.
Assuming you have one, when you did the conv. from cable to hydraulic, is the pushrod on the master cyl straight where it goes in the master cyl? I mean is the pushrod angle ok on the pedal?

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Sun May 31, 2009 11:39 am

Assuming it is all connected correctly and you don't have to much angle on the push rods, I would say your master cylinder is too small.

Jordan.

amk · Post by **amk** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:21 am

AndrewT wrote:This is *roughly* correct. The pipe from the master cylinder should be connected to the slave cylinder (which is bolted to the gearbox). Did you get fluid flowing through to the slave cylinder while bleeding the hydraulics?
Are you able to post any photos of your completed setup?

Yes i did the bleeding here is the link to the pics

http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w345/Amksti/Clutch/

amk · Post by **amk** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:23 am

Thanks a lot for all your help.

I managed to test the car today but the clutch is really hard still after trying to check through all what you guys have advised me on.

We have another problem, the car on bout 5k rpm hardly moves so I think the clutch is gone… is this why the clutch is hard?

Here are the pics of how I did the clutch modification.

http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w345/Amksti/Clutch/

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:53 am

Not sure how the free-revving characteristics of the engine really relates to the condition of the clutch....I'd say that's an unrelated problem.

Here are two more possibilities.

1 - Slave cylinder seized. Did you try taking the slave cylinder off the gearbox, operating the clutch pedal, and seeing if the rod actually moves on the slave cylinder? If it's been sitting for a long time it could easily have rusted up and seized. I had this problem recently on an old RX-7 that sat for 3 years without driving.

2 - Something wrong with the clutch fork (the black metal thing sticking up out of the gearbox that the slave cylinder pushes against to operate the clutch). Try putting a long bar on that and seeing if you can actually operate the clutch manually (don't try TOO hard in case you break something). It's possible the clutch fork isn't engaged with the thrust bearing properly, you may need to separate the engine from the gearbox to investigate this further.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:17 pm

New clutch mate.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:47 pm

happened to me once, it needed new pressure plate and after i replaced it was lot easier. Metal fingers on pressure plate tend to go hard due heat. I wld check the cylinder and others before you pull the box off again.
Cheers
AP

amk · Post by **amk** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:29 pm

AndrewT wrote:Not sure how the free-revving characteristics of the engine really relates to the condition of the clutch....I'd say that's an unrelated problem.

Here are two more possibilities.

1 - Slave cylinder seized. Did you try taking the slave cylinder off the gearbox, operating the clutch pedal, and seeing if the rod actually moves on the slave cylinder? If it's been sitting for a long time it could easily have rusted up and seized. I had this problem recently on an old RX-7 that sat for 3 years without driving.

2 - Something wrong with the clutch fork (the black metal thing sticking up out of the gearbox that the slave cylinder pushes against to operate the clutch). Try putting a long bar on that and seeing if you can actually operate the clutch manually (don't try TOO hard in case you break something). It's possible the clutch fork isn't engaged with the thrust bearing properly, you may need to separate the engine from the gearbox to investigate this further.

i tried both the options

1 - The rod does move

2 - I checked the fork too its fine, i tried the bar style n it was very hard i could hardly move it

amk · Post by **amk** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:41 pm

AlpineRaven wrote:happened to me once, it needed new pressure plate and after i replaced it was lot easier. Metal fingers on pressure plate tend to go hard due heat. I wld check the cylinder and others before you pull the box off again.
Cheers
AP

I was thinking the same... the Pressure plate is gone... and getting that pressure plate down here is a major problem.

Just in case is there any way the Leone pressure plate can be fitted?

Lastly, is the clutch modification correct the piping etc? I remember if I’m not mistaken in the actual WRX cars the brake master cylinder and clutch master cylinder piping are somehow connected not sure...

BBoypebs · Post by **BBoypebs** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:30 pm

Just woundering if the push rod for the master cylinder is set correctly. If there isn't enough free play the fluid may not flow back from the slave cylinder, causing a hydrolic lock.
Does it have a push or pull type clutch?
If it's got a push type clutch shouldn't the slave cylinder be the othe way around.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:23 am

amk wrote:i tried both the options
2 - I checked the fork too its fine, i tried the bar style n it was very hard i could hardly move it

Your sure it's fine? So when you operated the fork with a bar on it, the clutch definitely disengaged successfully so the engine could turn over in-gear without lurching the car forwards?

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:51 am

Is it just me and my glasses or is the master cylinder nearly the same size as the slave and good question is it a pull clutch or a push clutch (on the box)

TOONGA

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:23 pm

The question of the size of the master cylinder may have some bearing on the ultimate successful operation of the system (ie it may need a bigger master cylinder if that isn't the stock one for it to operate properly, ie that one may not have the right range of motion) but this is unrelated to the actual problem he is experiencing - a rock hard clutch pedal. The master cylinder cannot be the cause of this problem if he is able to bleed the system successfully.

The gearbox in the photos is an early turbo AWD gearbox with the correct slave cylinder fitted. This is a turbo PULL-type clutch setup. The slave cylinder appears to be installed correctly in those photos - it would be a pretty difficult custom job to mount it backwards.
The push/pull name refers to how the clutch fork interacts with the thrustbearing and pressure plate........not how the slave cylinder interacts with the fork.

I rekon now it's either the fork not engaged with the thrust bearing properly, or the pressure plate may be buggered (as suggested by Alpine).

Also,
- You can't use the pressure plate from the Leone, it's quite different. (Well you could, but you'd have to use a Leone clutch and gearbox too!)
- Your piping setup is fine (altho a little strange looking with the big coil of extra long tube but should be fine)
- No WRX's don't have the brake and clutch hydraulics linked up in any way that I'm aware of. Leone's do have some interaction between the two systems in the hill-holder setup but this is just a mechanical setup with the original clutch cable.

amk · Post by **amk** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:07 am

We have a new prob, i bought a brand new clutch plate and pressure plate, the clutch is slipping car doesnt even move.

can any one upload the exact pic of a pressure plate and clutch plate for an EJ20G please, i think i have got the wrong one...

amk · Post by **amk** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:41 am

I was wondering that the previous gearbox for the EA had the 4wd selection, but since my front shafts broke I was using the rear diff but selected on 4wd, now since this new gearbox EJ, its AWD so I need to connect my front shafts for the car to move right? The rear diff won’t work solo unless I connect the front shafts? Correct me if I’m wrong.

If so how can I connect the front shafts still retaining my front hubs? Any way around it?