cooling issues

[subie_1st_timer]

im having cooling problems with my 98 liberty its a RX DOHC EJ25 auto model

its quite hard to describe the symptoms but i will do my best so please bear with me:

The issues seems to arise after long drives. There are NO leaks and there isnt and water getting into the oil but the cooling system seems to somehow get an airlock in there and thats when the issues start.

Ive had the thermostat replaced with a genuine unit as the aftermarket one the radiator shop fitted we thought was the problem but it cooked itself again and now its cooked itself with the genuine thermostat fitted so thats that piece of the puzzle gone, but the car ran beautiful for 6 days after getting it back from the mechanic (who fitted the genuine thermostat, car ran great for 5hrs from newcastle to grafton after the rad shop fitted the aftermarket thermostat til it all went pear shaped, pressure test and flush/clean of the system also done) and when i checked the water on sat morning before heading off to willowbank (from the gold coast) everything checked out perfect and the car went beautiful all thru the week too, but sat night we drove back from the track to the gold coast, stopped at my mums for 10 min, then when i restarted the car i could hear the water flowing behind the dash in the heater box... then drove from mums place to beenleigh (about 45km) and as i was pulling into the driveway i noticed the temp was right up... literally like a minute beforehand i looked at the temp guage and it was on normal, it gets hot and when it does its like a blink of an eye

My personal opinion is, i think it may have a crack in an exhaust port, and the crack seems to open up on longer trips and in the meantime its pushing air/gases into the water chamber causing the airlock.... but thats just my theory cause i also seem to have a lot of water/fluid in the exhaust tip also.

The car is currently back with the mechanic and we are scratching out heads as to what it could be. When he bleeds the system he has the front of the car jacked right up to ensure all the air is out of the system but then the issue comes back... but why would it do it intermittently?? Why wouldnt it do it after 1 or 2 days of driving.... surely my 40km trek each way to work would show an issue in a couple of days but not almost a week then all of a sudden it does it???......

maybe a waterpump on its way out? a dodgy radiator cap (altho it looks brand new)???

please if anyone can offer any ideas we not thinking of or have had something similar please let me know.

cheers
Dave

[Battlewagon]

Sounds rather like a small water leak, or a headgasket starting to fail.
If you can hear the water gurgling, it means you've lost some coolant somewhere.
Often a small leak goes unnoticed as the coolant evaporates on a hot engine and the leak stops when the engine cools.... The cooling system tolerates losing some fluid, till it reaches a critcal point, and suddenly, whoosh. Overheat.

[FROG]

sounds awfully like my problem

showthread.php?t=8260

[subie_1st_timer]

Sounds rather like a small water leak, or a headgasket starting to fail.
If you can hear the water gurgling, it means you've lost some coolant somewhere.
Often a small leak goes unnoticed as the coolant evaporates on a hot engine and the leak stops when the engine cools.... The cooling system tolerates losing some fluid, till it reaches a critcal point, and suddenly, whoosh. Overheat.

i forgot to mention when it starts to go wrong, it pumps all the coolant into the radiator overflow bottle and then spews out everywhere but then once you stop the motor, let it cool enough to open the radiator cap, soon as you crack the cap it sucks all the coolant back from the overflow into the radiator...

Maybe it is a head gasket on its way out, mechanic keeps tellin me otherwise.... guess i wont be too surprised if that is the case cause i was pre-warned by members here but still, ive only had the car not even 2 months and its been in twice now to get this cooling issue fixed already and had to get a new knock sensor too so, not having the best run with my new car

Frog... man that looks nasty...

[discopotato03]

My solution was to use a bottle of CarGo Metalic Seal-Up , in an expensively rebuilt EA82 Turbo engine that is .
I am highly suspicious of many of these things and only used it on Coxys (in here) recommendation .
Fixed my internal leak first time and has been running well since .

I figure you don't have a whole lot to lose so do a few searches on this stuff . Just remember if you cook it too much once too often the engine could be a throw away . All aluminium engines react really badly to a severe roasting , material loses its hardness and cylinders can go out of round and gall piston skirts . Threaded fasteners lose their tension and so on and so forth .

What my engine was doing was leaking coolant for the first 30-60 seconds after shut down and eventually using all the coolant in the recovery tank . If left too long the level would drop in the radiator and the temp would go up .
After using that Seal Up the prob stopped at the very next shut down and hasn't happened since .

To use it you flush your cooling system completely and almost fill with clean clear water . Shake the bottle and pour it in the radiator and top off , all valves like heater must be open .
I just flushed my system and drove 3 K down to Repco knowing that when the thermostat opened the water level would drop slightly . Bought it , poured it in and topped up the radiator . They say drive around for 20-30 min , I had the engine running for about an hour including idling at the tyre joint getting one fitted .
At the first shut down no more hisses of coolant dripping down into my stainless header pipe . I went for a coffee and drove home and let it cool to luke warm , flushed the cooling system again and filled with water and Tectalloy Gold concentrate .

No hiss and no coolant loss , cost $11 and a bit of time .

Its won me , cheers A .

[Captain Obvious]

DONT put any form of sealant through it, these motors have a common problem of having head gaskets blow!!!! i bet my left nut thats what it is !!! it will be a leak from the bore into the cooing system and it will be slowly pressurising it thus filling the over flow. this is why a sealant wont fix it.

cheers
bryan

[discopotato03]

The silica based ones that react with combustion gasses will , thats what they were designed to do .

If your not going to pull the heads off it today and keep driving it doing nothing about the problem you stand to do avoidable damage .

Your call , cheers A .

[FROG]

i forgot to mention when it starts to go wrong, it pumps all the coolant into the radiator overflow bottle and then spews out everywhere but then once you stop the motor, let it cool enough to open the radiator cap, soon as you crack the cap it sucks all the coolant back from the overflow into the radiator...

Maybe it is a head gasket on its way out, mechanic keeps tellin me otherwise.... guess i wont be too surprised if that is the case cause i was pre-warned by members here but still, ive only had the car not even 2 months and its been in twice now to get this cooling issue fixed already and had to get a new knock sensor too so, not having the best run with my new car

Frog... man that looks nasty...

yep same symptoms
you had a gas test done on your coolant?
although that showed nothing for me ... too intermittant i guess
what is your mechanic saying it is?

[subie_1st_timer]

yep same symptoms
you had a gas test done on your coolant?
although that showed nothing for me ... too intermittant i guess
what is your mechanic saying it is?

hey frog

yeh mechanic saying he has done the cooant test and has come back fine and he did it on a few occasions after a couple of drives just to be sure... but maybe its like you, to intermittent to show anything.

Mechanic is also thinking that possibly the heater box maybe causing the issue, so, what we've decided to do is block it off and see how that goes and least that way we know that if the problem arises again, we know its from the firewall forward.... its worth a shot before going to extremes of pulling the engine down...

thanks again for the info guys

p.s frog... what did you end up doing to fix yours or was that block in those pics junk?

[Alex]

recently went through EXACTLY the same problme with my sisters ej22. we ended up doing a full motor swap.

After doing everything you have tried I still had the same problem. I beleive it to be a corroded water gallery internally.

alex

[FROG]

Ditched the block and rebored an old one we had sitting out the back , bolted my heads on and away I went
I had originally thought the heater core was the problem too but after bypassing it , the problem persisted ,annoyingly intermittantly , so I just bit the bullet and ripped the engine out for a look and found what you see in the pic

[subie_1st_timer]

recently went through EXACTLY the same problme with my sisters ej22. we ended up doing a full motor swap.

After doing everything you have tried I still had the same problem. I beleive it to be a corroded water gallery internally.

alex

damn.... now im getting worried

Ditched the block and rebored an old one we had sitting out the back , bolted my heads on and away I went
I had originally thought the heater core was the problem too but after bypassing it , the problem persisted ,annoyingly intermittantly , so I just bit the bullet and ripped the engine out for a look and found what you see in the pic

hmmm not looking good for me then.... so.... i guess if its time to look at the worst 1st... if im up for a motor swap then which way to go..... N/A or turbo;).... decisions decisions..... if i went the turbo route, would my auto handle it ok? What ECU would i need or can i use mine? just throwin ideas out there.... or, 3rd option is... offload the car.....

anyone recommend a subie wrecker on the gold coast or brisbane area that sells good engines?

[Alex]

as a side note it does sound like you have air entering the system.

But maybe you have an air pocket causing trouble, sometimes they can be really really hard to get rid of. A little trick to ensure youre removing all the air is..

1. Jack up the car sso the engine is pointing upwards
2. Fill up the radiator like you normally would
3. Remove the little breather screw ontop of your radiator
4. Undo your TOP radiator hose and fill the system from here(into the engine not the radiator). Once it starts coming out of the top hose quickly clamp it all back together.
5. Crank up the heater to get the water moving thru the core which will disperse more air through the little breather on the radiator.
6. Once water and only water is coming out of the breather tighten it all back up.

See if this helps, filling the engine with water via the top radiator hose is something not many people do and has worked everytime when ive had trouble bleeding the system.

I hope for your sake this works. But like i said, i tried all this with my sisters old EJ22, all the headgasket tests came back negative, there was no water in the oil or vice versa and there were no leaking hoses. Had me stumped so a total engine swap was the last resort.

alex

[subie_1st_timer]

as a side note it does sound like you have air entering the system.

But maybe you have an air pocket causing trouble, sometimes they can be really really hard to get rid of. A little trick to ensure youre removing all the air is..

1. Jack up the car sso the engine is pointing upwards
2. Fill up the radiator like you normally would
3. Remove the little breather screw ontop of your radiator
4. Undo your TOP radiator hose and fill the system from here(into the engine not the radiator). Once it starts coming out of the top hose quickly clamp it all back together.
5. Crank up the heater to get the water moving thru the core which will disperse more air through the little breather on the radiator.
6. Once water and only water is coming out of the breather tighten it all back up.

See if this helps, filling the engine with water via the top radiator hose is something not many people do and has worked everytime when ive had trouble bleeding the system.

I hope for your sake this works. But like i said, i tried all this with my sisters old EJ22, all the headgasket tests came back negative, there was no water in the oil or vice versa and there were no leaking hoses. Had me stumped so a total engine swap was the last resort.

alex

yeh ive heard they hard to bleed and both the radiator shop AND the mechanic have bled the system exactly almost word for word how you have described it... as i mentioned in an earlier post there are no leaks from any hoses or gaskets, new thermostat... and when i got it back from the mechanic monday last week, it went all week beautifully and best the car has run since i had it and i was really starting to enjoy the car for what it was then all of a sudden *BAM* air in the system and cookin itself....

kinda gutted cause the bloody thing is growin on me... hence if i do have to look at swappin motors id like a little more poke so maybe an EJ20T (think thats right?) from a WRX or something... but in sayin that i got the toy (my XA) that im trying to finish so i dont wanna spend tooo much on the subie... i brought it so i wouldnt spend TOO much on it... but hey im a car nut and cant leave things stock forever lol

[subie_1st_timer]

hmmmmm, what about a H6 conversion? possible? has anyone done this swap before?

[mickey1]

hey mate, i am right in the middle of exactly the same thing. i am just going to put in a new motor. i had to get trailered 250 kms to get home after the first time. when i got it home it overheated just idling for 10mins, then 2 days later i could drive it 20kms no troubles then went up a big hill and overheated. i was going to try the thermostat and radiator flush, but i think the motor is the way to go. cheers.

[davidjones]

This sounds so familar. What you have described is exactly what I have just dealt with.
After much searching replacing things it was a slight crack in the head at no 4 exhaust port. I ended up getting both heads rebuilt / remanufatured and all problemns solved.

It took three months and many repeated checks etc, even had the so called "experts baffled".

Best of luck.
Finding a good subaru mechanic / technicians was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. In the end I did the repair myself.

If you do a search under "bleeding cooling system" you will see the post I put up to find a solution to the problem.

Hope this helps.

[davidjones]

Furthre to my previous post.
When sourcing parts found that very few non genuine available. finally decided to use all genuine parts and had to wait for stuff to come ex east.(live in WA). The few non genuine parts did source did not really look to have quality and return. If you are going to repalce head make sure that head bolts are replaced. Old ones stretch and are subject to breakage if used agian. When had heads off suggest repalce water pump and timing belts and tensioner. They are a bugger to replace later.
Best of luck

[anonymouspilot]

Sounds alot like an ongoing issue I have with the outback. After posting on here (Outback Overheating - in the troubleshooting area) and trying all the suggestions - thanks everyone - I thought i found the problem when a radiator man found a leak. All seemed fine for a couple of months, then recently after about 2hrs driving the temp again shot up.
After a bit of playing round I noticed coolant spitting out the overflow valve even at low temp and relatively low rpm...Anyone know if this is normal? Anyway, I got a new radiator cap and coolant no longer 'spits out'.
Fingers crossed...but still worried it might be the head gasket...

[liberty92]

change the thermostat theyre cheap,

cam