87 Wagon, EA82 - Coolant Issues / Spun Bearing?

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Hey all! It's been awhile since I posted here. Sorry for the lengthy opening, but I wanted to give an idea of what I've faced with my project wagon and see if anyone has time to offer advice or help. I'll post a couple recent photos and videos. I have more and can take pictures of anything help you think might be helpful.

I finally got moving on my project wagon and finished the timing belt service, water pump, and seals. I also gave her new plugs, cap, and rotor. I then changed the radiator and flushed the crap out of the system from having sat for 4 yrs. I also made some minor repairs as small coolant leaks occurred at the corroded t-stat housing (which had no thermostat!), the metal pipe from the 90 degree bypass hose (which is rusty still and I'm thinking about just using a rubber hose.

Last weekend my friend helped me get a fresh set of tires too. I put in a new battery and let her hit the streets for the first time in about 4 or 5 years. She was idling rough at first but running smooth! The temperature went up but never into the red... I noticed the voltage going down slowly and suspect a bad alternator or a loose belt; all the warning lights were also on. I started home knowing the battery would die. About 500 ft. from my house she died. My neighbor gave me a jump and a kept her idle up a little to avoid stalling and went straight home and parked.

I noticed a loud noise I thought were slipping belts. Now I fear I spun a bearing. She still starts nice and idles good. Apparently spun bearings don't happen a lot on the EA82's, but I'm at a loss how to continue.

Video from inside the car, and from under the hood:

I went to remove the air cleaner and saw coolant / milkshake! So today I removed the intake to replace the gaskets and I drained the oil. No noticeable metal in the oil and not really any coolant either. Pretty standard dirty oil.

Milkshake, intake removed:

Passenger & Driver Intake Gaskets (LH drive car):

Right now I'm debating "TRYING" to just clean the engine, put on new intake gaskets and fresh oil and starting her up. I guess I'm worried this is a bad idea if the bearing is definitely gone. I do not have an engine lift and money is tight, but I'm committed to the wagon and the old lady who gave it to me and wants to see it run again!

Any help or advice would really be appreciated!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:36 pm

If all the warning lights were on I would be looking at the alternator - mine died big time, threw the balls from one of the bearings on my way home once. Not cool. Made a grinding/squealing noise until I replaced it for another unit.

My subi ran better after this alternator swap. As for that milky substance in the air cleaner it will be moisture and oil in the breathing system gathering in the air cleaner. Pretty normal, particularly if it hasn't been run in a while. A good long run should clear this out until you let her sit for a while again...

I'd be getting the radiator checked out to see how the flow is through the cooling channels of the core. Either have these cleaned by "rodding" the radiator or have a new radiator installed. EA's, actually all subi's DON'T like running hot for long periods of time.

Also a spun bearing would create a knocking sound, particularly on cold starts.

All the best with it, let us know how it goes

Cheers

Bennie

PS I want you're dash, but in km/h not miles

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:19 pm

Thanks a lot Benny! Just wanted to make sure I understood. I do think my alt is bad and I do think it was making some sound but not all of it. Some others have said Alta don't make noise like I was hearing when they go... I don't know.

So do you think I should take a chance and try just replacing the intake gaskets, or did you mean it was just from sitting and I probably did kill the bearings?

Oh and btw, I did replace the radiator and flush the system several times with the hose. The t-stat housing and metal hose from the bypass valve are shot but I made them work for now, as replacements are too hard to find.

Thanks
Brian

Trade u dash for engine? :P

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:28 pm

run engine with alt belt off to see if noise has gone is a diagnostic tip , if noise gone it has someting to do with what that belt drives

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:45 pm

steptoe wrote:run engine with alt belt off to see if noise has gone is a diagnostic tip , if noise gone it has someting to do with what that belt drives

Thanks Steptoe... should have mentioned I tried that afterwards. The noise seemed a little better (maybe just in my mind) but it was still making it.

The other thing I forgot to mention was that I noticed, in hindsight looking at other video, that the oil pressure was low. The needle was up some, but only about an 1/8 to a 1/4 of the way as seen in the first video above, instead of midway. This makes me lean towards it not being worth thinking the intake gaskets alone will fix the issues, but maybe someone else has better news?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:19 pm

If its still there I'll ask you this:

When was the last time the timing belt and tensioners were replaced? I had a tensioner that had a squeal that pitched higher just before it terminated itself AND my cambelt. Here's how it ended:

That is what I'd be looking at next. Also on the alternator - if you've got the fan belt removed, give the alternator drive pulley a spin. If its noisy there's a dodgy bearing in the alternator - life expectancy of the bearing and ultimately the alternator is unknown...

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Bennie

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:46 pm

Thanks again Benny! and ouch! That was a mess!

I had done the timing belt service before I ever tried starting her. I did cam seals, belts, pulley, tensioners. I also changed the radiator, new lower hose, new waterpump, new plugs, new cap, and distributor.

I will go look at the alternator shortly, I have it stashed in the spare tire bay right now

Intake manifold on the porch ready for cleaning and refreshing! Just waiting for a little light and the auto stores to open

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:59 am

Today's "progress"....

Barely got anytime in today but I fixed the houses and pulled the timing belts, tensioners, flywheel and water pump pulley.

Then I pulled the oil filter (possible small silver flecks barely seen) and oil pump (the screws did not seem torqued down much at all!). The "mickey mouse" gasket seemed in good shape, a little flattened. The oil that came out was a bit thin and light brown, but nothing like the mess before. Then I noticed the inside of the inner oil pump gear had rubbed some against the housing. It looked pretty fresh but hard to tell as it has been living in oil. On the mating surface of the block, I see a few black marks, I'm assuming maybe from burned oil?

Tomorrow I hope to jack the engine/trans up a bit and pull the pan. I did notice oil residue around the exhaust port outlets. It looks like it would have come out of the ports (the heat shields are quite clean), but that's hard to say I guess. I also want to pull the cam gears and cam seals and see if I can note any excess play in them.

Oil pump out:

Gasket not bad, marring of inside of the pump from inside edge of the inner gear:

Oil not the worst I've seen, maybe some water in it or a tiny bit thin... noted light brown color:

This gear on the front of the corner of the oil pan that the timing belt rides on has a seal in back that is notably out and worn. The gear functions ok, but does anyone know what that gear is called? My timing belt kit never came with a replacement and I would like to get one.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:04 am

the M6 fine thread bolts are not meant to have a very big torque number on them, single digit - 5 foot pounds ?? or Nm? you don't wanna strip them and don't want oil leaks either

An idler pulley? not driving anything? just a ribbed idler instead of smooth one ? Good idea to renew just in case

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:17 pm

steptoe wrote:the M6 fine thread bolts are not meant to have a very big torque number on them, single digit - 5 foot pounds ?? or Nm? you don't wanna strip them and don't want oil leaks either

An idler pulley? not driving anything? just a ribbed idler instead of smooth one ? Good idea to renew just in case

Yes, just there on the corner not driving anything in my model anyways. Luckily it is in ok shape, but I will renew it for sure. Thanks for the info on the foot pounds... I knew it wasn't much but I'm always appreciative of a reminder... I have been known to snap a bolt or 2

Love my extractors LOL

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:58 am

Well UPDATE:

Removed the timing belt, checked the new cam seals, all were good. Then I had the alternator tested on the bench. Testing a little low but still at 12 volts or so and no noises. Pulled the cam seal holders and everything nice and clean and lubricated.

Left Side:

Right Side (side with noise):

I rebuilt the oil pump--all 3 orings/seals, and cleaned it up. Noted the internal gear had rubbed the inside wall of the pump some. My guess is that just happened from the timing belt, for some reason, riding a little to the outside edge of the cams, hence pulling the oil pump shaft out (noted a few millimeter movement in and out, even after rebuild).

Proceeded to fight with the oil pan but got it off this morning... YUCK

Indeed the screen was trashed... almost a fiberous goo... I'd have to guess gasket remains if I had to. The pan is going to get a thorough cleaning tomorrow, a new gasket and coating of copper rtv on both sides, and get reattached. After the screen gets cleaned!

Is there a way to remove the tube and/or screen assembly for cleaning? Or must it be done in place? Removing the 10mm bolt (at the top of the above photo) did not seem to loosen anything.

Thanks all!

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:31 am

SubaruGL wrote:Is there a way to remove the tube and/or screen assembly for cleaning? Or must it be done in place? Removing the 10mm bolt (at the top of the above photo) did not seem to loosen anything.

Yeah.. the tube is kinda press fit into the block and has an o'ring under the lip. Just remove the 10mm bolt and try and twist/turn the pickup whilst pulling downwards.. if this make sense?

btw.. the rest of the engine looks pretty clean for an EA82. Must have had regular services

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:43 am

RSR 555 wrote:Yeah.. the tube is kinda press fit into the block and has an o'ring under the lip. Just remove the 10mm bolt and try and twist/turn the pickup whilst pulling downwards.. if this make sense?

btw.. the rest of the engine looks pretty clean for an EA82. Must have had regular services

Thank you RSR 555! Ok it makes sense thank you! I was afraid to pull too hard without knowing for sure I could.

And the odometer only reads 75k miles, so that is a plus. That noise scares me but I hoping with a thorough cleaning I might get lucky.

I forgot to mention it was also suggested I might try to get a screwdriver up there to check the rods for play. I'm not exactly sure what to look for, but I'll maneuver around and try to check each rod for up/down and side-to-side play and report back

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:49 pm

So my oil tube wouldn't budge. Gave it a good cleaning with kerosene:

Went in with my screwdriver, into the right side, front cylinder, to the inside of the engine and found play in this screw. Sorry for being naive, but any help identifying this as normal or "bad news" (if your bandwidth allows) would be great!
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc32 ... d00d9c.mp4

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:38 am

those pick up tubes can be so bloody tight you figure no need to pull them out as the fit being so tight must not need O ring replaced. the bearing caps you asking about? as in big end on crank? have just a sideways movement that is hard to describe just a bit of play is what I look for , for normal.

Don't suppose you kept or cleaned up the fibrous material stuck to the oilpick up tube mesh? like clean it and photo it to identify? Sometimes the fibre gasket of the oil fill tube, has about 9 holes in it and designed to stop blow flies and other objects entering via fill tube, breaks up and falls in sump. Looks like a shower grate.

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:18 pm

Thanks for the info and help again steptoe!

steptoe wrote:those pick up tubes can be so bloody tight you figure no need to pull them out as the fit being so tight must not need O ring replaced. the bearing caps you asking about? as in big end on crank? have just a sideways movement that is hard to describe just a bit of play is what I look for , for normal.

Hmm I think so, I could push it up and down and it felt very tight, not sloppy if that may sense. Kind of like the movement you feel if you lift up a rocker arm. As the video showed, I could push it straight with the screwdriver and it would snap back.

steptoe wrote:Don't suppose you kept or cleaned up the fibrous material stuck to the oilpick up tube mesh? like clean it and photo it to identify? Sometimes the fibre gasket of the oil fill tube, has about 9 holes in it and designed to stop blow flies and other objects entering via fill tube, breaks up and falls in sump. Looks like a shower grate.

Hmm interesting on the gasket of the oil fill tube. I haven't found a FSM yet so I wasn't aware it had one. Now I'm just looking at a metal mesh screen. I didn't save the gunk, thought I might, but I just disposed of it. I had kinda thought it was remnants of an intake gasket since I just replaced them and they definitely weren't the oem ones I scraped off.

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:45 pm

The engine is coming out. I'm pretty confident it is a crank bearing for cylinder #1. Won't know for certain until it is out and apart, but I was able to manually turn the engine over and fight compression

Until I got to cylinder 1. There was an area of reduced force.

I also was able to apply pressure to each of the nuts, and only found movement in that one from my video (cylinder 1).

I still can't believe I found no metal like had been suggested I would. But should be interesting when I get it apart. I'm hoping if no damage has been done I might be able to just rebuild the bottom end.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:53 pm

missed the bit about the 12V or so from your alternator - that'll cause grief as it should be pumping out about 14.2 V , yet many alternators I have had and used been just on 12 and been fine for most ay to day driving, leave for a week or so and battery is a bit weak.

Never found bearing metal in a Subie sump myself either

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:52 am

steptoe wrote:missed the bit about the 12V or so from your alternator - that'll cause grief as it should be pumping out about 14.2 V , yet many alternators I have had and used been just on 12 and been fine for most ay to day driving, leave for a week or so and battery is a bit weak.

Never found bearing metal in a Subie sump myself either

Ya, I do plan and upgrading to a 90 amp maxima alternator when it is all done... however right now I have bigger issues :P

SubaruGL · Post by **SubaruGL** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:05 am

Well finally decided to make time and split the engine and try to sort things out. Got a chance to rearrange my shop (porch), and got to removing the heads. Damn the coolant passages were a mess. I don't own an impact gun so couldn't get the bellhousing shroud off to try and crack the engine this past weekend.

So far I all I found wrong was 2 of the lifters seemed to be seized. I just labeled the parts, cleaned the block some, and straightened up. Hope to get the engine apart this week and have a friend look at the innards by the weekend. My money is still on one of the crank bearings.

Its getting cleaner and ready to explore. Not sure if I'm polishing it or just paint... I figure to spend this kind of money it should look pretty too

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87 Wagon, EA82 - Coolant Issues / Spun Bearing?

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