Dying EJ N/A?

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:13 pm

Well I have only had the foz for almost 2years. Done 45,000km. Heaps of beach, sand and dune work. Aswell as alot of highway driving offroading and towing.

My Foz is currently blowing smoke, black due to running really rich. I thought there was grey/white. I have a coolant leak which is 90% the water pump as its never been replaced and the car has 163,000km.
Its not running at its best performance and in the past week burnt 1l of oil in 600km (300km highway and 300 around town). I changed the oil last thursday gone and when i check sunday after abit of highway driving and around town it barely read on the dipstick again.

My father explained to his mechanic who knows abit about Subies the symptoms but he didn't seem to interested in looking at it and pretty much said its rooted! He said they are not designed to go offroad, AWD is for on the road blah blah blah. All that kind of shit, its been worked too hard in sand too much and he reckons im up for a new engine. He hasn't looked at the car but gave a rough quote of $4500-5000 for another EJ20 N/A and installation.

I think its a complete load of sh1t that after 162k an N/A eninge even with abit of offroad use could be f***ed. and that the mechanic just doesn'treally want to look at it. Plus 5k for an engine of the same kind is bullshit. I refuse to pay that even with a reconditioned motor.

Anyone got any ideas?? I know a few things need to be done and the burning oil is the biggest issue, valve seals or rings. Something along those lines.

Im willing to bring it down to Perth if someones able to have alook at it. Considering you guys know your sh1t about Subarus. I would much appreciate it and will to pay if its repairable with help. Or if at the worst a new engine.

Thanks
Taza

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:21 pm

short EJ20 from Subaru is about $3800, I can see where the guy is coming from with his prices. Black smoke running rich is usually O2 sensor is dud so ECU automatically richens it up to save it leaning out.
Oil , got the right grade and fresh ? try an oil flush additive before next change

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:34 pm

I just went from 15w40 to 20w50 due to the burning. Thinking it might help with the valve seals if thats the issue.

Any other ideas on what else could be worng or most likely dying?

Thanks
Taza

revmax · Post by **revmax** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:54 pm

160,000ks. Is it a DOHC.
with those ks my first guess would be head gasket.

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:03 pm

revmax wrote:160,000ks. Is it a dohc.
With those ks my first guess would be head gasket.

sohc ej202

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:22 pm

taza wrote:I think its a complete load of sh1t that after 162k an N/A eninge even with abit of offroad use could be f***ed. and that the mechanic just doesn'treally want to look at it. Plus 5k for an engine of the same kind is bullshit. I refuse to pay that even with a reconditioned motor.

Yeah true on the offroad comment with the amount of k's on the clock for your foz - but how many times have you hit the rev limiter or flogged the engine or let the oil level get low for an extended period of time?

All of the above will wear out an engine or certain components that will give you the issues you're experiencing now.

What you might want to look into is a rebuilt - best way to learn about your engine! You'll be surprised how simple they are once you remove the messy intake manifold.

Or get a long block and install it yourself over a week or so...

Not much else you can really do, other than fix the O2 sensor. Or get that rear locker operational and into production to start rolling some cash in, then you could do all you want with that dough!

All the best mate.

Bennie

woody.t · Post by **woody.t** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:51 pm

one of my mates replaced an engine in his forester with one with 80k on it and in very good nick for 1600, plus installation if you didnt want to do it.. look around 5000 would equal early sti conversion for my mind.

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:07 am

or use my H6 or even my 2.5. The 2.5 was rebuilt not that long ago and is running like a dream - has over 200psi in all 4 cyls. The H6 only has 29000kms.

Solve all your problems and you get more power......

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:02 am

That mechanic gave you what i call a "Get fked quote". He can't be fked, its all too hard, he's too busy or some shit. So he gives you a quote that makes you go away, or if you pay he makes enough money he'll do it anyway. Your first mistake was telling him what you do with the car because it gave him justification for creating the get fked quote. Either way its indicative of a shit attitude and i wouldn't let him anywhere near my car. Next time tell the mechanic its your grandma's car, you're been a lovely grandson and getting it look at for her because she's worried about the exhaust smoke. She's on the pension and has barely enough money for food after the landlord put up the rent. Something like that anyway

I'd stop thinking about replacing your motor untill you determine precisely whats wrong with it. You have a problem, first thing first is to come up with a list of possible causes. Once you have a list of causes you can determine what diagnostic techniques use can use for proving/disproving each problem. Compression check, a leak down test, check for any CEL's or codes. Once you've narrowed it down then you can start working out what you can do to address the problem. I've got a journal/diary i use for my cars, its simplifies the problems and makes them alot easier to deal with.

Your oil consumption does sound bad, but it might last another 100,000kms in its current state. How is it after you went to a heavier oil? Have you tried a good quality engine stop leak? Can you identify any external oil leaks on the motor? Valve cover gaskets are piece of piss to replace. Have you removed a spark plug to see what condition they're in, or if they there is any sign of oil on the plugs? Have you checked your crank case ventilation hoses for cracks or leaks, are they still plumbed up correctly?

Maybe you've got a bit of oil past the pistons, its fouled the plugs and now your car is running "rich" and driving like shit from incomplete combustion. It could've fouled the O2 sensors as well, they can shit themselves without giving a CEL. Either way your catalytic converted is probably blocked right up and could do with gutting/replacing. Fked O2 sensors, blocked cat are not solved with a new motor by the way. You could replace it and still have problems, which is why you need to work out what problems you have first.

Since i've started working on my car myself i've learnt to really love doing this kind of fault finding work, its challenging and you learn so much in the process. I've also saved alot of money by not paying someone $80 an hour to fault find for me, not too mention money saved by shopping around for parts which mechanics don't do. Its also good justification to buy tools with the money you save, and buying tools is fun. It sure beats been ripped off.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:40 am

I would get it checked by someone that knows Subarus. My 01 NA Forester has just hit 490,000 Ks and a lot of that has been beach and offroad usually towing a camper and it uses about 200mls -300mls of oil between changes . I would look at your PCV system

Post by **Alex** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 am

like i said Taza, get a real subaru mechanic to look at it. 90% of normal mechanics are knobs and know nothing about subarus.

Guys with an attutude like his make me so mad, i just want to hit them. I bet he drives a landcruiser and has never been in/seen a subaru do its stuff offroad.

alex

Post by **TOONGA** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:33 am

I remember somewhere on the board there is a post about you driving this car up a sand dune and it pushing a giant cloud of smoke out the exhaust. Or another one where you were doing low range burnouts. Or another one where you went full speed at a sand dune to clear it. These are the ones we have heard about:twisted:

I believe that could be the starting point of your problem

(driving style)

Who owned the car before you and how was it driven?

Glazed bores (WTF they say) can occur early in the life of an engine depending on how it is driven. If it was used primarily as a shopping trolley or for short trips, that plays a big roll in the way the engine has worn.

If this car is then sold on and driven like a 4WD/ AWD should be, then the glaze on the bores can cause all sorts of problems.

I'm not say this is the problem it could be one of many.(driving style:twisted:)

TOONGA

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:21 am

Yes I will admit I push the car pretty hard, really hard but still.

Thanks for the advice, I will start looking into the smaller issues then work my way through them.

I think it is about time I start changing my driving style just abit

The car before hand wasn't driven too lightly but not hard either. It was a family car for the average couple who have had Subarus for the past 30years or so.

It had almost never been on long runs for its entire 119,000km when I got it. Plus they said it burnt abit of oil and had never seen a mechanic or dealer since new. The husband had just done bits of maintenance here and there on it.

If it comes to it with a full rebuild or another engine I will look at my options then.

Thanks for the advice guys.

Taza

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:29 am

Alex wrote:like i said Taza, get a real subaru mechanic to look at it. 90% of normal mechanics are knobs and know nothing about subarus.

Guys with an attutude like his make me so mad, i just want to hit them. I bet he drives a landcruiser and has never been in/seen a subaru do its stuff offroad.

alex

He drive a Jag but yeah its true.

Jeff wrote:I would get it checked by someone that knows Subarus. My 01 NA Forester has just hit 490,000 Ks and a lot of that has been beach and offroad usually towing a camper and it uses about 200mls -300mls of oil between changes . I would look at your PCV system

I just replaced the PCV valve a few days ago. But I haven't really driven the car much since then.

niterida wrote:or use my H6 or even my 2.5. The 2.5 was rebuilt not that long ago and is running like a dream - has over 200psi in all 4 cyls. The H6 only has 29000kms.

Solve all your problems and you get more power......

I will keep the H6 in mind Ken. For the price your asking I would be better off paying 500 more for an EZ30 over an EJ20 N/A.

Thanks Venom for the info! There are no external leaks of oil, just abit of coolant right where the water pump is. Could the running really rich have anything to do with the burning oil?

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:35 am

taza wrote: It had almost never been on long runs for its entire 119,000km when I got it. Plus they said it burnt abit of oil and had never seen a mechanic or dealer since new. The husband had just done bits of maintenance here and there on it.

Wow. Just wow. That could explain alot.

Are you been serious?

Who the **** buys a new car and then doesn't get it serviced for what, like 5 or 6 years?

I would have said the only reason your motor might be cactus after so few kms is a lack of proper routine maintenance.

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:45 am

Venom wrote:Wow. Just wow. That could explain alot.

Are you been serious?

Who the **** buys a new car and then doesn't get it serviced for what, like 5 or 6 years?

I would have said the only reason your motor might be cactus after so few kms is a lack of proper routine maintenance.

Yes very serious. The husband just changed the oil every now and again and I think the spark plugs and other bits and pieces. He did the timming belt at 110,000km but didn't do the waterpump. Thus now it needing to be done at 163k.

They had it for 8-9 years and it just was used around town but the woman didn't nanny drive it.

daza · Post by **daza** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:16 pm

Sounds like you need to do a compression test first.
Running rich will cause an engine to burn oil, and burning oil can cause running rich.
Daza.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:47 pm

You need a game plan boy!

1) get to the bottom of the issue or find the source of the issue(s)

2) work out what can be done from here

3) gather the parts, get some info on how to do whatever it is you need to do

4) replace the engine as a last resort.

5) avoid conversions when you're trying to trouble shoot a problem, they usually end up costing a pot load more than a replacement - and if the problem turns out to be something exterior to the block it could still be present, such as a blocked cat as Venom mentioned.

And what Daza said is also very important that we've overlooked until his input. The compression test and the spark plug condition will tell you a lot about the general condition of your engine.

If you say that your spark plug gaskets leak, wouldn't that be a place for oil to escape the engine's internals?? Thus low oil level after a short distance travelled.

Cheers

Bennie

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:44 pm

Alright, now to set meself straight.

1. A compression test to be done. Will tell me the engines health to some depth.

2. The rocker cover gaskets replaced. Will stop the leaking into the cylinders and spark plug wells.

3. Check the spark plugs, Will also tell me the engines health to some depth.

4. Clean the O2 sensor by letting sit in petrol over night. If any improvement that its not running so rich buy a new Bocsh O2 sensor.

5. New water pump as it has never been replaced and is the most likely cause to the coolant leak and its location.

How does that sound as a start to repairing and finding the issues with her?

Post by **Alex** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:01 pm

taza wrote:Alright, now to set meself straight.

2. The rocker cover gaskets replaced. Will stop the leaking into the cylinders and spark plug wells.

CAM or head covers is their real name.

the list sounds like a good start out point.