EJ20 N/A missing on all 4 cylinders

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:19 pm

Well I was doing some nuts the other night offroad to celebrate my 200,000km tick over on the Forester then all of a sudden it was running shitter than usual.

There is a miss on all 4 cylinders, I have checked with a timing light. Changed all spark plugs, leads and put a new coil pack on. New knock sensor and reset the ECU.

It's still running extremely shit and I would atleast like it to run on all 4 properly...

I thought about the crank angle sensor, but then the car wouldn't crank only turn over so I'm not sure that it's that. What about the timing belt, could that of jumped a tooth causing the car to run like shit?

Any ideas?

Thanks
Taz

Oh: got my EJ25 heads back from the engine shop

The rest of the block goes in on Monday for a light hone and clean up...

Heads are fully recon'ed. New valves, valve springs, VSS, pressure tested, cleaned up and all the rest... I thought about a bigger cam but I'll leave it for now

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:39 pm

What is the fuel like? Contaminated fuel? And is the pump working well?
Is the timing belt in correct position/lined up?
Wont be related - MAP/MAF sensor?
Cheers
AP

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:42 pm

I have fueled up 4 tanks since this has happened and that has changed nothing. It does it at all revs, including idle.
I haven't checked the fuel pressure...
I haven't checked the timing belt, but I thought that it could be possible that it has stretched and jumped a tooth... It is way over due but since I'm putting a new engine in in a few weeks I wasn't going to bother changing it..

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:57 pm

taza wrote:I have fueled up 4 tanks since this has happened and that has changed nothing. It does it at all revs, including idle.
I haven't checked the fuel pressure...
I haven't checked the timing belt, but I thought that it could be possible that it has stretched and jumped a tooth... It is way over due but since I'm putting a new engine in in a few weeks I wasn't going to bother changing it..

If the timing belt was stretched - it wouldn't line up... hard thing but you will have to count how many teeths (because the markers would have worn off) in between if it didn't line up - if you were there you might as well replace it to new one.

How about any leakage in air manifold section from airbox to inlet manifold? (engine wouldn't idle if there was a leak)

Compression issue?
Cheers
AP

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:23 am

Wow.. heads look good Taz

I would look for a hose off somewhere and there is a possibility the belt may have skid/jumped a tooth but you'll only find out by removing the covers.

Let get this right, you were out flogging the crap out of your car and you're wondering why the gearbox is giving you trouble

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:23 pm

taza wrote:There is a miss on all 4 cylinders, I have checked with a timing light.

How did the timing light tell you there was a miss? Irregular flashes I'd guess at a set rev - if they were regular all is good there.

If it has in fact jumped a tooth or two on the belt there must be something wrong with the cam belt system and this could get much worse very soon - I had a bearing collapse on an idler pulley after being in a puddle of water.

If you have skipped a tooth or two it must have either been done on the crank gear so that both cams are the same out or both cams must be out differently. Either way it will never be smooth under any conditions - it will always be lumpy - VERY noticeably lumpy...

taza wrote:I thought about a bigger cam but I'll leave it for now

If you're ever going to go for a cam now is the best time to do it with the heads on the bench - once in the car it'll be a pot load harder to do (but still possible).

Cheers

Bennie

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:12 am

Pretty common on earlier rally cars to jump/skip a tooth or 2 on the belt. This was mainly due to high revs and on/off loads very quickly. The later EJ engines, Subaru fitted a retainer over the top of the crankshaft pulley.

I'm not saying this is definitely what's happened but I wouldn't rule it out. You might also want to check that your coil isn't 'tracking' to the manifold. This happens quite a few times on engines that are around dust a lot.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:45 am

retainer ? Is that the extra gadget in the box that Gates? are claiming to include to better safeguard your new belt install ?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:08 am

You might also want to check that your coil isn't 'tracking' to the manifold.

+1

Seen this a few times, best to check it out at night time

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:39 am

Give your keys to your mum and buy a bicycle

That should solve your gearbox and engine problem.

TOONGA

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:44 am

steptoe wrote:retainer ? Is that the extra gadget in the box that Gates? are claiming to include to better safeguard your new belt install ?

Nope.. factory fitted by Subaru. Will post pic later

Gannon wrote:Seen this a few times, best to check it out at night time

Makes it a lot easier

and fun to watch

TOONGA wrote:Give your keys to your mum and buy a bicycle

That should solve your gearbox and engine problem.

LOL.. it would save a lot of headaches

akpv · Post by **akpv** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:01 pm

Sounds like you have ruled out the ignition system.

I would be checking

Timing belt alignment
Water temp sensor
AFM

Can you check error codes in this model?

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:21 pm

RSR 555 wrote: LOL.. it would save a lot of headaches

Yeah and I would be able to buy a nice recon gearbox for my brumby

TOONGA

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:44 am

TOONGA wrote:Yeah and I would be able to buy a nice recon gearbox for my brumby

You would buy Taza's gearbox

taza · Post by **taza** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:15 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Wow.. heads look good Taz

Thanks, I'm happy with them. The rest of the block is going in for a light hone and clean up on Monday(tomorrow).

I would look for a hose off somewhere and there is a possibility the belt may have skid/jumped a tooth but you'll only find out by removing the covers.

All the hoses seem fine.

Let get this right, you were out flogging the crap out of your car and you're wondering why the gearbox is giving you trouble

Yes I was flogging it but I am kind on the gearbox and gear changes. Been there and done that, learnt my lesson! Plus once your in the right gear all you do is hit the gas pedal to go sideways :P

El_Freddo wrote:How did the timing light tell you there was a miss? Irregular flashes I'd guess at a set rev - if they were regular all is good there.

Irregular flashes every 5-6 flashes it would miss one. All 4 clylinders did this at different times. The engine runs really lumpy

If it has in fact jumped a tooth or two on the belt there must be something wrong with the cam belt system and this could get much worse very soon - I had a bearing collapse on an idler pulley after being in a puddle of water.

Possibly, this was a used engine with 200,000km on it when I got it. I know nothing about the history of it.

If you have skipped a tooth or two it must have either been done on the crank gear so that both cams are the same out or both cams must be out differently. Either way it will never be smooth under any conditions - it will always be lumpy - VERY noticeably lumpy...

This is what it is like.

If you're ever going to go for a cam now is the best time to do it with the heads on the bench - once in the car it'll be a pot load harder to do (but still possible).

Problem is $$$ otherwise my EJ25 would of been in months ago.

RSR 555 wrote:Pretty common on earlier rally cars to jump/skip a tooth or 2 on the belt. This was mainly due to high revs and on/off loads very quickly. The later EJ engines, Subaru fitted a retainer over the top of the crankshaft pulley.

Interesting, this would explain it.

You might also want to check that your coil isn't 'tracking' to the manifold. This happens quite a few times on engines that are around dust a lot.

My car is around heaps of dust most of the time, could possibly explain the clutch/gearbox issues too

The coil isn't tracking, I checked the other night..

TOONGA wrote:Give your keys to your mum and buy a bicycle

That should solve your gearbox and engine problem.

Haha, it's a love hate relationship with my Foreser..

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:31 pm

taza wrote:Irregular flashes every 5-6 flashes it would miss one. All 4 clylinders did this at different times. The engine runs really lumpy

Just refreash my memory, how old are your spark plug leads?

taza wrote:My car is around heaps of dust most of the time, could possibly explain the clutch/gearbox issues too
The coil isn't tracking, I checked the other night..

Ok. Who installed the box?

taza · Post by **taza** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:44 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Just refreash my memory, how old are your spark plug leads?

New

Ok. Who installed the box?

Guy and me

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:14 am

taza wrote:Guy and me

There's your problem right there

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:01 am

is this crank angle thing ? Not the sensor but the ring that the sensor reads, got lots a teeth or cuts in disc and something weird broken or stuck on teeth ?

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:12 am

Can you read the ecu codes Taza? Should at least be able to determain if a sensor has failed by what the codes say.

How well do Subaru's usually run open loop?

Regards

Doug