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LSD center changeover
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:03 pm
by xaymaca
So I got a Liberty RS 3.54 LSD today. Just confirming what I've already had a read of for changing ratios...
I keep everything from my open 3.7, apart from the actual diff center correct?
I may have to grind a bit out of the sides to accommodate the LSD correct?
I need some special tools to remove the crownwheel, is it just the Torx head I need? If so, what size?
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:42 pm
by Guest
Lifted from the USMB repair manual (seems to be offline ATM). Hope it can be of assistance if you don't already have it.
Remove stub axles by removing the two bolts from inside of axle.
Then drain and remove rear cover.
Check for excessive metal or other chunks.
Remove the side bearing caps and mark them(left and right).
Keep them with the rear end they came from.
You will need to reuse the 3.90 side caps with the 3.90 ring gear.
Next remove the diff unit by rotating and pulling towards you.
You will see 10 bolts(I think) You can get these apart using a wrench and a breaker bar if you do not have a vice.
Remove the 3.70 RG and set it aside. Repeat the procedure for the 3.90 diff.
Take the 3.90 RG and place it on the LSD unit.
This where it can get tricky.
I have run into this a couple of times.
The bolts may be a little bigger or a little smaller than the holes in the diff.
If they are the ones that are a little bit smaller you will be ok.
If they are a little bigger then you will need to open the holes a little bit.
If needed do this now. Clean unit again.
Now you can start to assemble the "NEW" unit.
Be sure to use the "Loc-tite" of your choice,
I used the blue stuff.
Get these as tight as you can and all will be good.
After you have the diff unit removed from the 3.90 case wipe it out.
Then place a rag or the like and cover the pinion gear and bearing.
Look at the two empty cases and compare both and you will see where it is ground down to accommodate the LSD.
You need to replicate this cut-out in the 3.90 case.
After you think you have removed enough material do a test fit.
Now wipe it out again and use some brake clean to make sure you have all debris out.
Use brake clean because it will evaporate. Now install the unit.
Now would be a great time to replace the side seals.
Also make sure to reinstall the rubber pieces that go over the axle stubs.
Make sure that you use the side caps that match the ring gear.
Very important as this will maintain your gear mesh.
If it isn't the right set you run the risk of getting noise and mismatch.
Install the bolts in the side caps and then install the rear cover.
Take out the top "fill" plug. I run Kendall limited slip gear oil.
Fill to recommended levels and then install it in the car.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:00 pm
by xaymaca
Ok so after some more research I need a Torx E10 deep drive socket. This is all well and good, Snapon sell these and I can order one online.
However, the LSD diff I have does not have stub axles attached by Torx bolts.
Does anyone know how I can remove the stub axles? There is a 3mm hole down the center of each stub axle but I couldn't see any bolt head or anything.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:09 pm
by stinky
Yeah there's a tiny little bolt down there. you need a long thin e10 torx socket. hard to get them, try and hunt down a snap-on truck.
Deep Socket E10 torx. part number is
STLE100
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:28 pm
by tim_81coupe
Not on the Legacy 3.54 diffs there isn't stinky. The little hole he's reffering to is heaps smaller than an E10.
The stubs are held on by an internal circlip, I am not 100% but I think you basically force them off...
I was going to do this conversion myself, but with 3.9 gears. However my welded diff went so good offroad I sold the two diffs I had to Subgiraffe. He's finished them off and now has a 3.9 viscous LSD.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:45 pm
by xaymaca
Yeh, the Legacy 3.54 is the diff I have! I should have stated that
I'll have to try beating the bejeebus out of them... Force is the best lubricant after all
Thanks for your input guys.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:00 pm
by AlpineRaven
xaymaca wrote:Ok so after some more research I need a Torx E10 deep drive socket. This is all well and good, Snapon sell these and I can order one online.
However, the LSD diff I have does not have stub axles attached by Torx bolts.
Does anyone know how I can remove the stub axles? There is a 3mm hole down the center of each stub axle but I couldn't see any bolt head or anything.
ON some diffs (which I believe its one of yours) DOES not have any bolts to hold it in it has a clip inside it to hold the shafts in, If you see the end of the shaft splines it shows a small V shaped hole in the centre, if you have that then you will need a large round metal (phillips head screwdriver if it fits thru the hole) and a crow bar or long adjustable spanner's end and wedge between the diff and the screw driver, it'll pop out (I know one side is easier than other side)
Here is the pic of the difference Drive Shaft's splines -
Top shafts is believed from RX Leone (its from LSD's shaft from one side, but other side is same length as the bottom shaft). Does not require any screw as it has a clip.
Bottom shaft is from L Series & early Liberty.
Here is a picture of two different types of drive shafts (well actually I've seen 3 different types - they are, female - female (normally L series models), male to female (early Liberty), male to male 2nd Gen Liberty, WRX and upwards))
Top one is from after 2nd Gen Liberty (1994) (male to male drive shafts)
Bottom one is from 1st Gen Liberty (1989-1994) (female to male drive shafts)
Correct me if I am wrong.
Now.. Grinding.... YES and no...
You don't need to grind all corners, you can grind one corner only (can send a picture where I grinded mine tomorrow if you need to have a look)
The problem you have if you don't grind is that you cannot remove the diff unless you remove the bearings (both sides) then you can take the diff out without grinding at all, therefore you can grind it if you cannot remove the bearings - its a easy way to remove it.
You don't need any special tool to remove the crown, I think its 16mm socket, its can be very tight to get them off, use a long bar to undo it. When you tight them up, use a torque wrench at 60nm with locknut glue in it.
If you come any problem, let me know - I've done a couple of diffs. Clutch pack LSD & welded.
Cheers
AP
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:06 pm
by AlpineRaven
Oh yeah, here is a picture below -
Circled in Red are your current diff Open parts - you will need that to transfer LSD into.
Circled in Blue are the 3.54 LSD parts that you require taking out from & to be put in your current diff.
You need to look closely to know what you're doing during the swap incase you don't know.
Cheers
AP
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:40 am
by xaymaca
Stub axles removed... Thanks heaps AlpineRaven!
Now for the next adventure.
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:42 am
by AlpineRaven
xaymaca wrote:Stub axles removed... Thanks heaps AlpineRaven!
Now for the next adventure.
Its a pleasure!! next thing, grinding or not? Have you now taken out the LSD centre?
Cheers
AP
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:21 am
by xaymaca
The center is out, didn't have to remove the bearings or grind anything. Prety happy about that! The interesting/notfun part will be putting it in my 3.7
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:12 pm
by AlpineRaven
Oh hey... what car is it going on?
A slightly off topic - the bolts on the back of the diff cover has different length, on my Liberty has longer bolts whereabouts early Liberty or others has shorter bolts.
Cheers
AP
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:15 pm
by xaymaca
Going onto the Brumby!
BTW, does anyone have an E10 Deep Drive Torx socket lying around in Melbourne? I've got one on backorder from Snapon... 4 weeks
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:37 am
by AlpineRaven
xaymaca wrote:Going onto the Brumby!
BTW, does anyone have an E10 Deep Drive Torx socket lying around in Melbourne? I've got one on backorder from Snapon... 4 weeks
AH you'll be fine if its going in Brumby!
Yeah I do, Also from Melbourne as well heh.
Cheers
AP
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:38 pm
by Matt
You need this E10 Deep Drive Torx socket to remove the stub axle from a open MY/brumby diff? Just insert down Torx bit and remove screw to take out stub axles? I just brought this LSD in question...
Thanks
Matt
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:43 pm
by AlpineRaven
Matt wrote:You need this E10 Deep Drive Torx socket to remove the stub axle from a open MY/brumby diff? Just insert down Torx bit and remove screw to take out stub axles? I just brought this LSD in question...
Thanks
Matt
The LSD you just bought has circlips on the axel shafts so you won't require any special tools at all. (if he supplies you stub axles!? - if you don't have stub axles, its a must have otherwise it'll be hard to find!)
But you do need E10 deep drive torx socket to remove the shafts on the Brumby's diff (same with L series diff) to open up/remove the diff out.
If you have any problem, let me know - I've been thru this on a couple of diffs.
Cheers
AP
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:58 pm
by Matt
Will these stub axles fit with my current CV's? I.e the same number of splines, etc.
Thanks
Matt
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:11 pm
by Outback bloke
Yep, they will fit.
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:34 pm
by Matt
Thanks for that Brett.
Matt
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:58 am
by AlpineRaven
Matt wrote:Will these stub axles fit with my current CV's? I.e the same number of splines, etc.
Thanks
Matt
As Brett said yes...
That is correct it will, since you have female/female drive shafts in the Brumby/L Series. The Liberty ones has female - male CVs!
Cheers
AP