HELP! 04 Forry EJ25 wont start!

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:34 pm

jzk25 wrote:Lol. Credit where it's due.

I have been on straddie for a few days hence talking to Miles and no me.

The problem will be with the immobiliser wiring. No injector pulse is how the imm does it's thing. A squirt of carb cleaner down the intake is an easy way to confirm this.

The immobiliser unit has battery power(large blk/red), ignition power(green/red), a pair of earths(green/white), two signal wires to the ecu(red/yellow,yellow/red?), an indicator light for the dash(brown?), a drivers door switch input(can't remember) and a key switch input(white?). The other plug is the aerial on the key barrell.

If the powers, earths and communication wires are connected I reckon the key switch is probably where you went wrong. The key switch needs 12v constant to the connector on the barrell. When you put the key in the ignition the switch allows that 12v through to the immobiliser unit to signal the key is in the ignition. The IMM will not operate without it so the engine won't start.

This assumes that the ecu, imm ecu and key are all from the same vehicle also. If they aren't it also won't work.

FWIW, I would not use an SG ecu on a 2.5 sohc given the choice. I opt for the 99-02 Liberty ecu and manifold instead(even when using an SG engine). The SG ecu is inferior to the Liberty ecu and is also crippled with tougher emission controls so the engine performance and response suffers despite the advertised power ratings being similiar.
This is just how I would and have done it if I was in control of the conversion from the get go. You're nearly at the end so don't worry about it, it's more for other peoples info.

I'm back tomorrow if you need help.

Thank you AL ever so much for this advice....your above reply sounds dead on in regards to whats happening. Damn I wish you were a little closer. If you had a shop in WA you would have gotten this job of mine easilly. But ya get that.

I also deeply appreciate the tip on the ideal ECU & Manifold setup for this engine.....very interesting indeed! How much difference in performance are we talking AL, out of curiosity? If it dramatically improves performance, it might be a project for the future perhaps......

Regards,

Karen

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:32 pm

G'day Kaz,

Don't stress mate, I spent 3 months trying to get my MPFI EA82 running properly - it would only start when towed. I later found out that we had one of the cams 180 degree's out of sync! I was a very happy boy the day that was sorted.

Good luck with it all. Next time I'm over there we can both ponder over eachother's EJ's

Cheers

Bennie

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:50 pm

El_Freddo wrote:G'day Kaz,

Don't stress mate, I spent 3 months trying to get my MPFI EA82 running properly - it would only start when towed. I later found out that we had one of the cams 180 degree's out of sync! I was a very happy boy the day that was sorted.

Good luck with it all. Next time I'm over there we can both ponder over eachother's EJ's

Cheers

Bennie

Cheers Bennie...

Your a sweety.
Your cam challenge definately sounds frustrating....glad you got it sorted though!
Yeah I cant wait till me L is running again.....!
Hasnt been in my driveway for over a year now... WHIMPER
Dang I so miss the ol girl.
I just hope allllllllllllllllllllllllllllll this time, sweat, grey hairs, blood, tears and a SH1T load of my money will be half worth it in the end......I certainly wont even contemplate the thought of another car project for as long as I shall live after this experience....what a nightmare. It all looked so straight forward and simple in principle and on paper, but the reality of a major driveline mod is very much a different story.
Bennie....I just hope your EJ convo goes ten times smoother than mine has mate.... I almost feel like trying to talk you out of your EJ and into a 99 Forry or something....coz if I could do this alllll again...I would have flogged my beloved L and got a base model 99 Fozzy in a New York Minute!

But I DO look forward to one day going bush one day with both our EJ'd L's....

Regards

Kaz

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:06 pm

L-Raiser wrote:Bennie....I just hope your EJ convo goes ten times smoother than mine has mate.... I almost feel like trying to talk you out of your EJ and into a 99 Forry or something....coz if I could do this alllll again...I would have flogged my beloved L and got a base model 99 Fozzy in a New York Minute!

But I DO look forward to one day going bush one day with both our EJ'd L's....

I've got a second touringwagon wiring loom that I'm thinking of shoving in the parts bomb once the EJ operating loom is spliced into it - then mounting the EJ in that car to see if it runs. Get rid of any bugs in that before putting it into my Ruby Scoo.

Either way I don't anticipate any more time than 3 weeks off the road if all goes well. I'm hoping to do it before xmas but we'll see how it goes

We'll both get there some day (soon)!

Bennie

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:55 pm

Well.....after numerous exhaustive conversations with AL at AM AUTO in QLD, my mechanic is still unable to get my ECU & Immobiliser working and is washing his hands of this current ECU & loom. He is insistant that the ECU is not working. He mentioned that he cannot even get a 'check engine' light from it. So he may be right, the ecu might be cactus. There is a minute chance that my previous mechanic may have even sabotaged my ecu before I took my car back off him!

So that leaves me with a few not so cheap options I guess:-

1. Buy a replacement ECU for this existing loom at $2,095

2. Buy an aftermarket ECU at $1000+++

3. Buy an earlier model loom & ECU ie LIB and install that ALONG with its matching inlet manifold at $?????? ( Probably my only affordable option )

4. Somehow (???) get this ECU to someone who can do a diagnostic to determine if it really is rooted....but How? Where? How much? I dont know.

5. Pour gasoline over the whole lot thing and light it...?!!!

JOKING

6. Just go put in another tired, gutless EA82 with noisy lifters! JOKING

Can anyone offer any advice.....what would YOU do in these circumstances...????

WA GUYS...Do you know anyone (auto sparky or similar) who could look over my car to determine if this guy has made any mistakes with my wiring before I go and spend heaps of money on other ECU setups.....I'll put on a slab of your favourite drop, just to look at my car for me.....My car is in Mandurah.

L-Raiser

dwayneb · Post by **dwayneb** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:03 pm

Offer Al at AMAuto an all expenses paid holiday to WA. Might be cheaper in the long run. Get him working on it

Sounds like you are having quite a time with it. Would be worth it in the end, but getting there is the times when you would rather just be able to skip all the in-between stuff.

Dwayne

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:19 pm

i'm certain if you asked on all the subaru forums and explained your plight someone will lend you an ECU for testing. Thats what I would be doing.

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:42 pm

jus on the check engine light- i havent been able to get one working on my 22 ecu, but everything else works as it should. im sure you could at least swap ecu's with someone- maybe rent one from a wrecker haha.
good luck with it.

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:57 pm

When I ran out of ideas to get my EJ18 conversion running, I took it to EFI Automotives in Balcatta. Cameron there did the job, seemed to know his stuff, and got it running without costing me a fortune.

Or there are companies like Injectronics which offer exchange ECUs, or can test the one you have.

I'm sure someone will be able to get it going for you. A regular mechanic (if that's what your current guy is), might not have the gear or the expertise for the electrical side of a project like this.

Dane.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:11 pm

GOD wrote:When I ran out of ideas to get my EJ18 conversion running, I took it to EFI Automotives in Balcatta. Cameron there did the job, seemed to know his stuff, and got it running without costing me a fortune.

Or there are companies like Injectronics which offer exchange ECUs, or can test the one you have.

I'm sure someone will be able to get it going for you. A regular mechanic (if that's what your current guy is), might not have the gear or the expertise for the electrical side of a project like this.

Dane.

How much did it cost you Dane...?

Im definately starting to think my car needs a decent auto sparky to get it running. I just hope my current loom is salvagable......coz Im now broke....any costs of more than $1000 and my car will end up in my garage collecting dust until I can get more cash....which wont be anytime soon....

L-Raiser

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:41 pm

The work on my car cost $330, but it was probably a fair bit simpler than yours.

Definitely take it to a sparky, and preferably one that specialises in injection and ECUs etc. I know Deerings outsource their tricky jobs to EFI Autos. (I have no connection to them, but they served me well, so I'm happy to give them a plug.)

Dane.

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:18 pm

JUST a suggestion... so people please don't shoot me. For under $1000 you should be able to pick up an ej22 and loom that WILL work and will suit the other mods you have already done. It is just an idea. You could sell your ej25.

Sorry that i don't know much about this imobilser problem... it is a bit of a pickel. Surely it is bypassable... i assume the imobilser is built into the harness and not part of the ECU. Surely powering the ECU up diectly at the ECU should bypass it. I could be wrong. If i had a lot of time im sure i could work it out. I do know that one wiring mistake with the ECU could easily blow it. Might be hard pressed to borrow an ECU off someone when your harness could be poping ECUs.

Dave

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:20 am

showthread.php?t=12292

Might be of interest to you.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:52 pm

OK ( UPDATE )

Thanks to Corrie 'GX_REX'....we've managed to locate a replacement LOOM & ECU kit from a 2003 Forester AUTO. I have just gotten off the phone to AL at AM AUTO in QLD, who has confirmed this kit will do the job nicely. Apparently the change to ECU from 'AUTO' setup to 'MANUAL' you need to turn the wire that leads to the Auto box into an EARTH which will revert the ECU to Manual format.....

But before we go and install the replacement wiring we are going to test this other ECU in my car to confirm if my ECU is at fault.

I have to give a huge THANK YOU to AL, his advice over the phone and by email has been nothing short of awesome and an incredible help and all free advice at no charge! I offered to pay him something for his over the phone advice and he said 'That wont be necessary'. What a gem eh! THANK YOU AL!!!

Fingers crossed......lets see if we cant get this stubborn girl started...

Regards,

L-Raiser

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:58 pm

Soooo
ur Mechanic cant get ur engine started on a known working loom and ECU and now you are footing the Bill?

i dont get it.

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:46 pm

She changed mechanic. First one stuffed her about. New mechanic (understandably) is having trouble getting the rest of the wiring working. Its VERY difficult to pick up on wiring half way through after someone has stuffed with it.

Sounds like your on a winner there Karren. Look forward to doing some offroading/touring with you when it's done.

Dave

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:58 pm

L-Raiser wrote:Tim Gunn at SIKEM WREX, in Mandurah is working on my car now...he stripped the loom down. We was confident that he could get it running by stripping it to its bare esentials to make it run. This is what he has done on at least 5 other EJ conversions to older subes that I know of.....but he's never worked on a later model sube ECU before.

i was thinking that the Loom was untouched before this new mechanic started on it.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:48 am

Mat's right in this case Dave, the loom & ECU were untouched when I gave it to him. My prev mech didnt get anywhere NEAR that part of my work, it was sitting complete as it came out of the Forry in a crate untouched.

So esentially, yes....this new mech could not get my wiring working. In my opinion, he took on too big a job working on a late model loom which he had not done before and couldnt get it to work. In regards to BILLING for this work....I need to discuss this with him as not only have I not got a running engine but he has ruined a perfectly good loom worth about $300-500. Luckilly the guy I bought this replacement loom from gave me a REAL good price at $250. I am hoping that I can negotiate something with this new mech due to this unsucessful job......

I was up all night trying to work out where to go from here....Ive decided to take my new wiring to someone more specialised in this field, which will cost me around $1000 Im expecting...... 'K-CHING!!!!' ( There goes yet more money on the ol cash register. SIGH! )

The motto from this story.....you get what you pay for....try to save money on going to a cheaper mechanic....you always pay for it in the end....

Then again....I would not have called $900 a 'cheaper' option to install an 04 loom which is what the recent mech charged me....!

Who I take my car to now for the wiring.....is yet to be decided....

WA GUYS....does anyone know of any good, reliable, qualified, auto sparkies thay they could recommend to install this complete loom for me....???

Kaz

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:59 am

where are you finding these mechanics??? seriously what a joke. Demand your money back. He has wasted your time, and destroyed a perfectly good loom worth $$$. Fair enough if he charges you for any work he has completed but the botched wiring job should not cost you anything. It has already cost you a loom.

seriously send it to Al. plenty of people from all over the country send him wiring looms to be chopped down.

at least you are guaranteed it will work that way. he usually charges around 400 to chop a loom down (I think)

you would still need someone with half a clue to install it though!

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:08 am

vincentvega wrote:where are you finding these mechanics??? seriously what a joke. Demand your money back. He has wasted your time, and destroyed a perfectly good loom worth $$$. Fair enough if he charges you for any work he has completed but the botched wiring job should not cost you anything. It has already cost you a loom.

seriously send it to Al. plenty of people from all over the country send him wiring looms to be chopped down.

at least you are guaranteed it will work that way. he usually charges around 400 to chop a loom down (I think)

you would still need someone with half a clue to install it though!

Unfortunately, here in WA, trying to find decent, half affordable, reliable mechanics to work in bigtime conversion jobs like these dont grow on trees. I canvased Perth for years trying to find someone to do this job. This will be my THIRD mechanic who I have been through now since day one. The first mech washed his hands of my job before even touching it after committing to do the job for 12mth before hand, the second took $3300 of my money up front, held my car, my money and my Forry wreck for 12mths only did half the work then took off and kept my cash, now the third, who was confident (and not the cheapest guy in town, but a good rep though) has finished all the mechanicals famously but the wiring was too much for him poor bugger. In his defense...he has committed over 30hrs trying to get this 04 loom working, so he has at least tried and I want to pay him something for his efforts. Most mechs wont touch complex conversions with a 40 foot barge pole, which is fair enough really too.