HELP! 04 Forry EJ25 wont start!

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:47 pm

Guys....I need serious help here....my 04 EJ25 SOHC is in my L, along with the 04 ECU and is wired into my L harness, but the girl refuses to start. The injectors wont fire at all. Im told that they are linked to the IMMOBILIZER which is normally wired into all the doors & other switches/sensors etc etc etc. But since the loom has been cut down it wont release the immobilizer. Even with the 04 Forry key barrel wired up too she wont fire!

From the asking around my new mechanic has done, he tells me that the later model Subaru's have much more intricate Immobilizer systems and the ONLY way to get around it is to virtually fully install the entire (uncut) Forester loom to satisfy this ECU. IS this true?

As fully installing this entire loom is not feazible, I can only see two options available to me....install an aftermarket ECU or try to install an earlier model Sube ECU then hope that it will connect to this 04 engine. But then Im told that engines have different plugs n pins etc from one year/model to the next.....

Can anyone offer any advice.........?

Can you get aftermarket ECU's without selling your soul to get one ie affordable..??? How much are they..??

Is an 2003 (with less demanding ECU) or earlier ECU compatible with my 2004 EJ25 SOHC...???

This is all that needs doing on my car and she's ready to drive away....

Karen
L-Raiser

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:56 pm

hmm
well it is true that the later model soobys do require the key barrell and more tricky immobiliser stuff. however you should get away with the cut down loom- i doubt u'd need the door lock wiring etc.
who cut the loom down? hopefully they know more.

also are you sure its an immobiliser problem- does the rest of teh car crank over/spark/etc. remember to check the smaller things.

for an aftermarket ecu you are looking at at least a grand + tuning costs etc.

stamp_licker · Post by **stamp_licker** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:20 pm

Have you read this thread ?showthread.php?t=12147
Maybe speak with AL, jkz25.He is a bit of a guru when it comes to wiring looms and conversions.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:23 pm

Subafury wrote:hmm
well it is true that the later model soobys do require the key barrell and more tricky immobiliser stuff. however you should get away with the cut down loom- i doubt u'd need the door lock wiring etc.
who cut the loom down? hopefully they know more.

also are you sure its an immobiliser problem- does the rest of teh car crank over/spark/etc. remember to check the smaller things.

for an aftermarket ecu you are looking at at least a grand + tuning costs etc.

I should never have gone the EJ25 path....should have gone with an EJ22. BUGGER!

Just confirming....yes the engine is cranking, sparking & is getting power to the injectors, but they are simply not injecting any fuel....

Tim Gunn at SIKEM WREX, in Mandurah is working on my car now...he stripped the loom down. We was confident that he could get it running by stripping it to its bare esentials to make it run. This is what he has done on at least 5 other EJ conversions to older subes that I know of.....but he's never worked on a later model sube ECU before.

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:27 pm

tell your mechanic to call Al at amauto.com.au

even if he has to pay Al for the advice, it will save him a lot of pain.

P.S. dont freak out. the 2.5 will be worth it when its all running. Al wil be able to sort this for you

chubby37 · Post by **chubby37** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:53 pm

is that the guy up the sunny coast???if so i heard he was almost born holding a wiring loom...been told there is nothing he cant sort

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:59 pm

hahaha

im sure he will like that description. next thing you will be calling him the stig

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:13 pm

stamp_licker wrote:Have you read this thread ?showthread.php?t=12147
Maybe speak with AL, jkz25.He is a bit of a guru when it comes to wiring looms and conversions.

Thanks for this Stamplicker

....very interesting thread....I have forwarded this thread along with 'ALs' contact details to my mech....hopefully he can help....( crosses fingers )

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:26 pm

is that the guy up the sunny coast???if so i heard he was almost born holding a wiring loom...been told there is nothing he cant sort

Once a little birdie told him about the diodes in the fuel system that is.

I have stripped down late harnesses with the immobilizer in them and got them to work quite easily, so yes it can be done.

It could be a number of different things why it won't start. Things I would look for first before your mechanic tries to find the missing harness pieces are, is the fuel relay cycling when the ignition is turned on? Is the fuel relay any good? Is there power at the relays, both ignition and fuel?

Stupid question but it has to be asked, are the fuel in/outlet on the correct way around on your motor, that is fuel in at the top one and out on the one below it?

Is there definitely spark? I was under the impression that with the immobilizer that you don't get any thing when it is over riding the system.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:52 pm

Outback bloke wrote:I have stripped down late harnesses with the immobilizer in them and got them to work quite easily, so yes it can be done.

It could be a number of different things why it won't start. Things I would look for first before your mechanic tries to find the missing harness pieces are, is the fuel relay cycling when the ignition is turned on? Is the fuel relay any good? Is there power at the relays, both ignition and fuel?

Stupid question but it has to be asked, are the fuel in/outlet on the correct way around on your motor, that is fuel in at the top one and out on the one below it?

Is there definitely spark? I was under the impression that with the immobilizer that you don't get any thing when it is over riding the system.

Thanks for this Outback Bloke. I have forwarded these very good questions on to my mech.... and will let you know his reply...

Kaz

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:15 pm

One thought: Are the injectors actually opening. On several EJ22 conversion and on Jays ej25 conversion we have found they would not start after doing a conversion... it took a very long time to diagnose that more than one injector was seized shut. I recomend to anyone doing an EJ conversion to get there injectors serviced just before it's complete. Seams to be rather common with the ones i have been involved in.

From memory after Jays injectors were cleaned it started first turn on the key. Prior to that it just turned over like no fuel was getting delivered into the system.

As stated above it could be one of a million things at this stage but with the suggestions from others here it should help get to the bottom of it.

Also somthing to think about would be what work the last dodgy mechanics have done on the motor. If they did the timing belt then i would get your new mechanic to make sure they lined it up right. It wont start if it is a tooth out.

Goodluck

Dave

gx_rex · Post by **gx_rex** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:41 pm

If you run into troubles, I know a guy in perth that has a complete wiring loom out of an 04 forrestor. Actually he has pretty much a whole car minus the shell.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:51 am

SuBaRiNo wrote:One thought: Are the injectors actually opening. On several EJ22 conversion and on Jays ej25 conversion we have found they would not start after doing a conversion... it took a very long time to diagnose that more than one injector was seized shut. I recomend to anyone doing an EJ conversion to get there injectors serviced just before it's complete. Seams to be rather common with the ones i have been involved in.

From memory after Jays injectors were cleaned it started first turn on the key. Prior to that it just turned over like no fuel was getting delivered into the system.

As stated above it could be one of a million things at this stage but with the suggestions from others here it should help get to the bottom of it.

Also somthing to think about would be what work the last dodgy mechanics have done on the motor. If they did the timing belt then i would get your new mechanic to make sure they lined it up right. It wont start if it is a tooth out.

Goodluck

Dave

Hi Dave, I will pass this info on, but I doubt that its a fault with the injectors as we had the engine running in the wreck before we took it out. Engine has only done 60,000kms and she started easy and purred like a kitten. That was only 10mths ago. Also, my last mech didnt touch the engine at all, left it as it came out of eng bay and being a reasonably low km engine we didnt think a timing belt was needed.

Very much ppreciate the suggestion and the questions though Dave

Kaz

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:54 am

gx_rex wrote:If you run into troubles, I know a guy in perth that has a complete wiring loom out of an 04 forrestor. Actually he has pretty much a whole car minus the shell.

Cool...well if my new mech has butchered my 04 loom too harshly then I may need a replacement.....hope it doesnt come to that though.... Deeply appreciate the offer GX_REX.

Regards
L-Raiser

SuBaRiNo · Post by **SuBaRiNo** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:08 pm

10 months is ages for an injector to be sitting there dry. I belive Vidlers sat un-started for less than that.

Dave

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:47 pm

Vidler's was probably closer to 18 months but I agree, 10 months is still quite a long time. But yeah, if the injectors are getting power pulses at the right time then there are only 2 reasons the engine wouldn't be getting fuel;
1 - blocked/siezed injectors
2 - no fuel

Take the return hose off and put a suitable catch can there. Fuel should gush out when the fuel pump primes. If it does then the injectors probably need servicing.

Or it could also be a siezed fuel pressure regulator.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am

SuBaRiNo wrote:10 months is ages for an injector to be sitting there dry. I belive Vidlers sat un-started for less than that.

Dave

Geezuz....I didnt know injecters could kak up that quickly....yikes!

Thanks for the heads up (education)...

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:40 am

AndrewT wrote:Vidler's was probably closer to 18 months but I agree, 10 months is still quite a long time. But yeah, if the injectors are getting power pulses at the right time then there are only 2 reasons the engine wouldn't be getting fuel;
1 - blocked/siezed injectors
2 - no fuel

Take the return hose off and put a suitable catch can there. Fuel should gush out when the fuel pump primes. If it does then the injectors probably need servicing.

Or it could also be a siezed fuel pressure regulator.

Thanks Andrew I'll pass this on to my mech also.... Whenever I speak to him he insists that the injectors are working fine and that it is immobilizer related issues, but will ask him anyways.

He spoke at length with AL's assistant at AL's sube auto workshop in QLD and he recons he has a few more things to try now since that conversation.....shall keep you guys all posted of his progress/nonprogress.

Thanks for all your advice/help...

Kaz

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:43 pm

Just try something....

Unplug the AFM (air flow meter) and try to start it. (forces it to start in limp mode) It has worked 3 times for me on 3 different engines.

jzk25 · Post by **jzk25** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:42 pm

Outback bloke wrote:Once a little birdie told him about the diodes in the fuel system that is.

Lol. Credit where it's due.

I have been on straddie for a few days hence talking to Miles and no me.

The problem will be with the immobiliser wiring. No injector pulse is how the imm does it's thing. A squirt of carb cleaner down the intake is an easy way to confirm this.

The immobiliser unit has battery power(large blk/red), ignition power(green/red), a pair of earths(green/white), two signal wires to the ecu(red/yellow,yellow/red?), an indicator light for the dash(brown?), a drivers door switch input(can't remember) and a key switch input(white?). The other plug is the aerial on the key barrell.

If the powers, earths and communication wires are connected I reckon the key switch is probably where you went wrong. The key switch needs 12v constant to the connector on the barrell. When you put the key in the ignition the switch allows that 12v through to the immobiliser unit to signal the key is in the ignition. The IMM will not operate without it so the engine won't start.

This assumes that the ecu, imm ecu and key are all from the same vehicle also. If they aren't it also won't work.

FWIW, I would not use an SG ecu on a 2.5 sohc given the choice. I opt for the 99-02 Liberty ecu and manifold instead(even when using an SG engine). The SG ecu is inferior to the Liberty ecu and is also crippled with tougher emission controls so the engine performance and response suffers despite the advertised power ratings being similiar.
This is just how I would and have done it if I was in control of the conversion from the get go. You're nearly at the end so don't worry about it, it's more for other peoples info.

I'm back tomorrow if you need help.