LEDs on trailer not work correctly H.E.L.P.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:29 pm

Due to losing a normal tail light lens I found good reason to fit the MONZA by autotecnica trailer lights I bought last year.

Now, as free standing lights they work when powered up. Even as a tail, add in the brake and it gets brighter. All well and good.

I have one that is indicator, the other is stop/tail. One set for each side.

Now fitted, all power sources are checked up to the lights, every connection is good and works.

Hook up to car to test and find trailer tails do not glow - even though the 13.0 Volts is there at the wire and the earth is there and working. Indicators work as expected, as do the brake lights.

Found from tinkering that to disconnect the power side of the brake light circuit at the lights the tail circuit suddenly comes alive - they are within same unit!

I found to play with these lights that the red wire is the brighter circuit, yellow is weaker, and black is the earth. The diagram on the back of the pack claims yellow wire is to connect to brake light circuit and red to tail - the exact opposite to how I found they worked on their own. Now off in the mozzies and low light to try switching over

These lights come packaged with a button exposed inviting potential buyer to try out. Power comes from a pack of button cell batteries included in the pack.
Brake light circuit is the one on test, unpacking allows me to connect yellow to power directly and see the brake get brighter from red wire when button is pressed.

otherwise, who understands LEDs and what is the additional thing to hook up to make them work in some euro cars?

I do recall when looking at trailers the old guy I ended up buying off was saying that LEDs needed a separate earth and they did not fit them - keeping cost down
thanks, ???.

dibs · Post by **dibs** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:44 pm

iv been told dont touch electrics by profecional people and none profecinal people .i did mine on the pop top and they worked .my operator did a set on one of our trucks and they aslo worked . hmmmm dont know

dibs

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:22 pm

Sounds to me like you need to switch the red and yellow around. Commonly the red is Brake and Yellow parkers/ headlights. But that is without seeing the units, exact situation. As for the earth question as long as it has a good earth that ran the normal lights the LED will be good. They use considerably less power (read current).

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:50 pm

diagram is incorrect. playing with light alone and small 12 volt battery proves this, so does swapping around to suit diagram.

generally have auto electrics sorted, but an LED is blending electronics into my tinkering

I have read of others with some sort of conversion trouble - the detail was not taken in at the time and thought it was in here but cannot find any under search.

Google comes up with VE Dore having trouble similar but was fixed with the box supplied with towbar being car specific replacement. Sounded like installer forgot to insatll until presented back with drama with LED lit trailer.

Also recall hearing of euro applications and similar. This defies my electronics understanding as earth is there and so is power , right at the lights wire.

I have emailed autotecnica and will share a reply if I get one

WAITING for our electronics guys to step in with an answer.

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:27 pm

Jonno,
When we were manufacturing our trailer range we had occasional situations where trailer lights were powered via the earth and back through the vehicle.
We just ripped out the OEM system and reverted to our own (conventional) method of wiring em up:mrgreen:
Then stopped buying the problematic offerings !

trailer electrics are generally P!55 Poor !

Worth also double checking the vehicles wiring too and for bad earths in the plug / scoket and line.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:30 pm

I have thought of a way to try beat this - if it works, install another stop tail and hook them up as single service each. Got spares to do up a mates caravan while he is away, they may not get there

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:39 pm

Ahh, yes Giles, forgot you made trailers. Our wiring here in Oz is not likely to be like UK stuff or the mammoth UN trailer plug. I know of at least three plug standards here developed before WAuns spoke to NSWelshman and the south Ozzies made their own too (I think) NSW is round six pin socket usually die cast, SA is flat seven pin in plastic case and newly adopted by NSWelshies ( I pissed my NSW fitting off recently off last one to be converted - in the bin gladly)

We use a separate pin for earth on the plug and wire it up to the lights yet these plicks that built my new trailer took a short cut on the far end LHS and cut off two wires ( earth and RHS blink) instead of one leaving earth just down to the body connection.

Basic little lights came on the trailer. Affordable.

Curious to see if another light sorts it. Bit late now tonight, but maybe... remebers the adhesive backing will need to be unstuck if case works glad I did not drill and screw them in place.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:15 pm

How good is the earth on the car? Can you run a wire from the battery on the car to the trailer plug? if this works it means there is a bad earth. Ie not touching the body very well, but well enough to light normal bulbs. It is hard to explain but basically the more current you suck through the earth it will work as with less it will won't work at all.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:26 pm

Knowing would not sleep with this running across my small mind I went out armed with LED worklight and hooked up another tail/brake light as a tail only, leaving existing fitted LED from this arvo as the brake only ... and guess what !! It all works as each light as a separate function on their own none of this dual function stuff.

Not enough room to use a third as a tail only may look for a compact tail LED to resolve.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:31 pm

Matt, dunno how correct it is but these LEDs are said to draw stuff all as in 1/100th of an amp if you can believe what you read on the 'net

. Maybe the earth wire needs more from the light to my earth connectin. I have a great earth wire inside my utes taillight in m6 bolt stuff - it is all good, been good for all othr trailers and this trailers incandesant sp. lights.

Probably looking like the design of the LED light - but it works well with its own battery pack of button cells - got me !!

Been thinking I have spare socket in electric brakes and rev or ancillary in the 7 pin, wondering if I hook up an earth to car side for one of these and run a separate earth to the brakes or tail and then maybe what the old guy was saying in a random way about needing a separate earth may make sense??

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:39 pm

No, STUPID !! That won't work as the tail brake has only one earth wire coming ut of it! Maybe the design of the LED needs an earth each and doesn't so won't work ?? But it does in the package power supply ?? Am I gonna sleep ?

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:03 am

LED = Light Emitting Diode

Which means that power will only work in one direction but Subaru make it difficult by making their lighting circuit switch to Earth. You can make them work but you need to pop into Jaycar and grab some 12v Diodes (like the 1N4001 1amp general purpose type) and chat with a good salesperson (one that knows electronics well) and you'll be able to nut it out.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:36 am

all lighting switch to earth ? I think I see your point here. I might just try hook up a battery instead of a car and feed in to see if all works correctly minus the Subaru. There is something not right about these lights I got from Kmart. They are marketed by a company that displays their Australian website autotecnica.com.au labeled as suitable for trailers, caravans, trucks, car interiors & show cars BUT nowhere does it say they are ADR compliant, have no ADR 47/00 or ADR 6/00 or ADR49/00 on them as the ones I ripped off that are known to me to get loose connections for the bulbs or just a build up of corrosion to prevent bulb from working.

Do not need an inspection to that extent upsetting me in the future.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:59 am

Most wiring (not Subaru) is switch from the positive side (power then switch then unit then earth) but Subaru trigger the units after the power has gone through them (thus why people have trouble wiring spot lights) and I think you should try testing them without the car but they will need to be wired (with diodes) if you want them to work from the car. I don't think the lights will require ADR on them if they are for a trailer or similar but will need to work correctly for DOT.

Hope this is helping? and maybe a local Auto Sparky might help as well?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:47 am

Help himself to A$110 an hour to check my work before find the problem - NO WAY ! Rather put that cash into LEDs that will work or old crappy bulb lights. Thinking smaller LEDs just for tails.

Earth switching used to be just the domain of wipers eh ? Think I have some diodes left over from eliminating the voltage leaking from high beam triggering my driving lights relay on low beam as highs had just 1.7 volts or so just trickling through them maybe just to give good life not being suddenly called into action from zero volts....breathe...

Oh yeah, ADRs apply to trailers, non compliant lights are fail for inspection and roadside boys in blue

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:47 am

ah ha,

A... it is dawning on me

, light bulbs will work backwards or forwards and yep understand LED's work only one way.

B... have hooked up batery to front of trailer to mimmick a normal switched car and it works just fine up the back end

C.... thinking *ouch* tails work through that headlight switch we know to be "unique" whereas brakes work rather normal and asking them to maybe share the same earth wire is a bit much, although with these set up to do one function each all works fine but do not wanna have to add an extra light to my work.

D....Found a pair of 1N4007 8W ( gawd, test the eyes or what?)

Now, got ramblings out of the way

QUESTION

Do I install these diodes :

A. In the earth line into trailer?
B. Into the earth wire at left tail/stop light set and right tail/stop light set?
C. Into the taillight pos supply wire each side, or
D. Into the stoplight pos supply?

I will have a go and my guess, is the pos supply to tail light coz they is the one not working. Just gotta brush up on the direction of flow through diode according to its markings and figure flow changes in and out of light unit (whips out Basic Electronics by Peter Phillips)

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:13 pm

Firstly , for the nitty gritty on ADRs for us all, unless your state or territory has over ruled them to suit themselves.

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... _01_b.aspx

Secondly What does control R do ? just tried it to see if I got red text, something processed and wiped out my post, now I see a tool bar added to bottom of screen

X Find: window >next < previous highlight all, box match case

what ??

Thirdly Yippee , PAUL , YOU HAVE SAVED ME A SHEAP OF BUGGERISING AROUND

Works. Forgot to render other side disconnected first so doubled up on me work. Also disabled the non LED plate bulb, after a bit too. Made up a diode with clips either end and jumpered it in between earth first both ways, then as I said, tail circuit, then finally SUCCESS on the brake pos power in to the LED on this side I work with then did same as on right hand side. BINGO

Fitted the diode above 1N4007 with the silver ring end at the LED end for those that are learning diodes or refreshing like me. First diode I ever played with was a crystal diode in a no power supplied radio * cough, some years ago.

Cheap or what ? Looked them up in catalogue, 4 for 60cents or 100 for ten bucks !! Will get more to play with one other wet day

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:04 am

No probs Jonno.. sorry I wasn't here to answer some of your questions (was down south) but glad you got it sorted

p.s. thanks for the info on the ADRs

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:50 am

S'OK.

Now seeing the logic in the power being at the LED but not working is same as hooking up correct voltage to a single LED wrong polarity and not have it work, has power but not right way. In the past have also hooked up 12V to lower voltage LED - and they smoked

In all fairness to the importer of the lights - they replied before the COB of the day they got my email. Answer being they are not electrical or engineers so essentially suggested an auto electrician to investigate.They sell these lights in many countries.

Now, also see if the lights had an earth wire for each of the tail and stop circuits rather than a common I would not have had this problem.

Truly felt I would be chasing them as I had to last time with my steering wheel boss they reckoned fitted MY and they'd not had any or many enquiries before on them so they said. Seems odd that the boss would correctly fit MYs with adjustable steering column suggesting only adjustable steering owners fitted their steering wheel boss.
Next question to them is asking for ADR compliance numbers of their lights.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:34 pm

This thread has put me off upgrading to LEDs!

Off to Superchump for a Narvara twin pack with globes!

Chicken I know, but this looks too painful to sort...