screwed up wiring, Doug to explain ?

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steptoe
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screwed up wiring, Doug to explain ?

Post by steptoe » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:23 pm

thinking Doug might be the best one to nut this one out ....

call me self taught, tinkering found that a simple 2 wire non piezo buzzer if hooked up to IGN POS+ one side, and lights pos+ the other wire - I get myself a headlights on buzzer reminder. Wired up the same way an aftermarket headlight reminder is done.

Only problem is, after a big wiring session, installing extra cig lighter/power sockets, a relay protecting set up to avoid start up surges and spikes wiping out delicate electronic gadgets that were not around in the days the Brumby was made ...so, made all sorts of changes to discover later at night, that my lights would not come on ! An intermittent not come on too !?

I needed lights, so was poking about, tearing out suspected circuits in the dark, and then finally found, if I pulled the cig fuse - I could start the car and get the lights burning, shove cig fuse back in and get power there too !

Reckon i upset the earth switching of the lights, and is in the cig circuit.
As I try to piece things together, work out I got my lights-on source from the cig lighter surround light bulb - for the buzzer.

Test the buzzer to find an earth one side, power the othr side. But, turn the lights on with ignition off - both wires feeding the buzzer light up as pos+ power while it is buzzing ??

Not yet tried to disconnect this thing to see if my headlight woes are sorted :( flat battery :(

I am thinking I need to shove a diode in somewhere, without killing my cheap home found lights on reminder function.

Maybe a piezo will not cause same grief.

Maybe I screwed up somewhere else ?

Now, this little item found on ebay, made by Narva (or has their name on it) might be a better proposition. ~ $25

Interesting to note it has three connection points, whereas I only needed two (to screw up :( )

but, in my defence - I have bought two wire headlights-on reminders and connected up following their instructions, much the same as i have done.

No exclusions for earth switched Subarus though !

Further research involving checking of the index cards at the library back before search engines would have proved im-bloody-possible - glad google is around these days :)

Find people have done simples like my own- and given detailed, long winded instructions, another, has built himself a small project box, added glass fuses (ancient things they are !) a lot of detail and best of all, finally gave me a reason to want one of thos label makers - ID all the added wiring under the dash and bonnet- fold them over the wires - that is brilliant !!

And, bought a car with a home made lights on reminder, just not a buzzing type (for the deaf community ? ) About 20 years ago, it was a panel mount 12V bezel style light, coloured lens thing probably scrounged from something, wired in, with a diode and stuck to the steering column with bluetac.

Can't believe such a simple, cheap device has not been fitted to cars for at least last thirty years - there is a big gap until auto lights off came about !

Off to plug, unplug and play with diodes and charged up battery :)

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Bantum
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Insert wiring diagram here ...

Post by Bantum » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:24 am

What you been up to now Steptoe ? ... Sounds like you need a helper to fix all the dodgy wiring going on there ... :p

Wiring diagram :

Image

You'll note that earth wire is connected to other things beside the marker lamps ( 1,2,3 ), it also goes to washer/wipers ( 19 ), fuel pump ( 21 ) & brake sensor ( 35 ) ... So not a good idea to 'cross streams' as it were & mix them up with the power circuit to item ( 48 ) and Head lights... :)

It would get annoying with the sound, I like the light idea but will need some more details ( photos would be good ) of your fix - Then I can add it to collection of wiring diagrams I have done now ... ;)

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by Gannon » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:16 pm

Can you sketch a diagram of what you have done?

Id say it could be solved with diodes, in the same way a strip of diodes is used in auto turbo L series with the auto 4wd when wipers, brake or 1st gear is selected to prevent backfeeds into the other circuits.
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:20 pm

Thanks Gannon ,my etcha sketch is broke :p sorry, words wil have to do if you can handle it, but think it is sorted, or, is failing to present itself.Waiting to go back on the road. Been off for a year or so - itching to try out the spfi inlet f a t n e s s :)

pretty certain MS Paint is not within my PC

I did a heap of things at same time while I was at it.

I made use of some of the empty, lonely plugs in the loom. Wonder what else goes off the rear demisters 20A fuse - besides the rear window demister :) an my digital temp gauge. EDIT - according to the wiring diagram - nothing is shared by the rear window demister fuse circuit. The bRumby has the circuit and the fuse, just no demister !

The black 3 pin connector hanging off behind the radio had IGN pos + power and an earth so I made a plug for that to power up the digi temp gauge.

I used some bits of a Vortex cig lighter socket to repair existing - similar, just a little different. At same time I pinched the LIGHTS ON pos supply for my reminder, pinched it from the light of the cig socket. Obviously found an accessory on wire for headlight reminder IGN ON wire, so squealer sets off at a better position. Previously followed install directions on after market purpose sold buzzer and used IGN ON wire, but, found can't have parkers on and accessories on without the rude interuption.

Lemme see , I also used Gannons latching relay arrangement for new power sockets. It uses one relay and a bit of non standard hook up and a switch. Its function is to power isolate any delicate electronics plugged into the sockets while starting engine. Once engine is running, I hit a mommentary switch that allows relay to connect, and stay connected. Only disconnecting on IGN off - protecting for next start up.

For the 12V socket protector circuit, I flogged pos+ 12V from the original modified lighter socket. The original remains start up surge n spike unprotected for now. Would like to get one of those ebay motorbike 12V voltage readers to shove in same hole

After doing all that is when the problem occured, making it hard to pick which of my careful mods is responsible. The digi temp gauge was disabled rather crudely, so that is ruled out :) Trying to put more thought into these wiring jobs - after having seen some of my under dash arrangement, one after the other mod - gets a bit untidy.

I just got stuck into it again, added some big muther diodes (6A40 flogged from anti theft relay set-up - 6 may have been its diameter, they were that big) to both pos and neg wires of the buzzer, ensuring at each step, everything worked correctly. No probs - the buzzer has diode protection.

Given the lights were working fine this morning before I started, and then agian after first diodes went in, dunno if I have fixed it. Keeping in mind removing cig light fuse resolved my problem that dark night a year ago - concentrating on new stuff I added to that circuit - the new plug sockets. Added in those blue diodes you find in MY and L Series wiring looms - all self contained in anti rattle softish rubbery plastic with male spade terminals and a friendly diagram. Put one in each the new power POS and NEG wires.

CHECK CHECK

all is fine so far

repaired my digi gauge wiring loom - used no diodes here.

Oh, that little diode box in my GLTA - fried with the fusible link disaster in 2009. Diodes lost their one way routing :p hit the brakes and my wipers started off :D

Excellent electrical chart repro there Bantum, eye friendly - though different wire colours would be nice - next time :)

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Post by tambox » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:57 pm

Be carefull playing with Subaru light wiring, on L's the way the headlight earthing switches after the IGN is off, varies between years, would not be surprised if Brumby's are similar.
Subaru in their infinite wisdom, earths some headlight wiring when the IGN is off.
When you say lights, do you mean headlights or dash lights?
L serious, still.

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Post by steptoe » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:29 pm

park lights and dash lights regarded by moir as same circuit.

One other UFO moment at the time, that has come back to me ...when starting engine in the dark - the inside dash lights would light up even though they were off ...then go try switch light on, think I could only get park lights, not headlights

Followed was repeated attempts the first time the no headlights thing happened, used a combo of start engine methods, and success was maybe with headlights. The second and last time - the cig fuse pull , start, headlights on, fuse back in - then parked it - had an inlet manifold to fit :)

If it happens again, I'll be back in here.

A note on the 6A40 diodes - they were chunky, so too their 'leads' - figured they were used in the anti theft circuit relay, partly due to monster size a little more resistant to the heat of an auto elecs soldering iron ?

Yeah, Brumby lights are like L's, and the twin headlamp variety of MY, the inner driving lamps are rather unique and cannot be interswapped with H4 globe style inserts without mods. This Brumby had the H4 replaceable globe type and was earthing out giving quad light high beam all the time. Can only think the previous two owners went for rego inspection in a uniform that took inspectors mind off things :rolleyes:

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Wiring Diagrams ...

Post by Bantum » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:09 pm

... Excellent electrical chart repro there Bantum, eye friendly - though different wire colours would be nice - next time ...
This one is not by me, found here : http://webmonkees.com/art/sub/85bratwires.jpg

Which colours are you referring to ?

P.S. - I'm Still trying to find an Aussie Brumby wiring diagram ( I'm not able to access my manual atm ) - the one shown above is American, so may be back to front ... :p

My aim is to re-do the whole car wiring diagram as it should be ... :D

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by El_Freddo » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:10 am

Is 22 the fuel cut relay, or the fuel cut at the carb?

I'm looking for the little box that cuts the fuel when the engine stops - depending on the year model they either run all the time; prime 5 seconds when ignition is on or doesn't prime until the starter motor is turning the engine over.

I need to track this unit down to swap it from a run all the time to a 5 second prime unit.

Sorry for the hijack Jonno!

Cheers

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:11 am

Bantum wrote: Which colours are you referring to ?
the colours indicated by the code :) but , tell you what is hell easier to use that wire chart at its size, holding finger on line, and use arrows to move it under static finger :)

hijack away !

IOf you want a prime first, then connect once started again, (remain connected until engine off ...) you didn't say, but am assuming

track down one of those peel instruments cp30 lpg safety switches off ebay - they have that 5 second initial prime, then back to operate once tacho signal is happy engine is running.



I think, after seeing a 12V pos supply at both neg and pos leads of the headlight reminder (std cheap buzzer from jaycar), prior to my diode instal, see it look better after , no pos at earth side, pos at power side - all good on testing. Such a tiny device hooked up in an unusual way cause so much weirdness.

Thanks for help, advice and comments so far.

Tips for anyone considering a headlight reminder to save from a flat battery - buy a narva unit, or add diodes to the 3.25 buzzer, include easy replace buzzer access, coz one died in other car, include a two pin connector for easier replacement or isolation. I have added a screamer direct to the back of the gauge PCB - been faultless, just can't shut it up at times of need !

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Post by Subydoug » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:41 am

Sorry Steptoe, missed this thread. Looks like you got it under control now though. My headlight reminder is really simple, they turn off with the ign ;).

Regards

Doug

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it's baaaccckkk!!

Post by steptoe » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:43 pm

Right, so what is it doing ???

In car, stopped at intersection, so decide to test it while drivng and bugger me - problem is back!

engine is running, foot on brake, stationary - turn headlights on and the turn indicators in the dash glow full green, lights don't come on, my IGN powr sourced temp gauge reader screen goes off, turn lights switch off and greens go half glow.

Pull off the road to also see why factory temp gauge shot to cooked...

as I opened the door, door switch must have activated and everything came back to normal ??

Disconnecting my diode laden headlight reminder did nothing.

One thing I did not touch during my recent fix session was the factory cig lighter socket I played with before.

This gremlin is earth seeking circuits.

Few more things to look at - cig lightr wiring and maybe a diode to protect across the 85 86 terminals - use a factory round relay in my latching circuit to save costs, use what was on hand ....

I think all the while before I likely had door open and not doing its tricks...Maybe another diode for good measure in the door switch wiring :)

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More go ...

Post by Bantum » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:17 am

El_Freddo wrote: ... Is 22 the fuel cut relay, or the fuel cut at the carb ... ?
Nope 22 is the 'fuel cut solenoid', which runs off ignition ( BW wire ) ... ;)
steptoe wrote: ... the colours indicated by the code ...
Hmm - yes I've noted they may not match your car ... but hey - it should still do the same job ... :D

P.S. - I think somewhere in you tinkering you have got your new wires connected to wrong side of the door circuit, letting the 'flow' back in ... :(

But you knew that already didn't you ? ... :p

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by steptoe » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:39 am

yes, well, um, I think more diodes .... I did not bother with the previously out of service plug i tapped into for convenient power and earth for my temp unit. May as well pull it down further and dal with the cig socket as well !

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Post by Subydoug » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:38 am

I remember having similar symptoms In my MY one day driving home. Cant remember what I did, but both the indicator lights turned on and Im pretty sure a bunch of other lights. I cant tell you what was wrong though as I cut all the stock loom out that night and started rewiring from scratch.

Your problem will be that somewhere, something is allowing current to go where is shouldnt be allowed to. I would start at the fuse box and follow the wiring for the headlights all the way to the bulbs. I do seem to recal that the dash had both a + and a - hookup point for the Hibeam bulb and indicator bulbs??? cant remember, but if one of those see gnd it could turn some stuff on.

Regards

Doug

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Post by steptoe » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:59 am

I'm just trying to isolate stuff I did that time, but could be coincidentally elsewhere, thanks :) will plod along..... open my door before turning healights on :p

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Post by steptoe » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:24 pm

engine running, door closed, parks on, headlights on , off, on, off, on - disco lights for the neighbours :D

test 1 and 2, 3 & 4 PASS at night.

no dramas with the wrong lights illuminating.

Another look at the black three pin plug that looks to be for the Brumby rear window defog has two wires that had earth, oddly so too a pair of same skinny black wires paired up as an earth pin on the bitsa cig lighter socket.

Cig lighter socket is now out of the circuit - waiting to see if a USB power port will fit in same place - coming from HK. The pair of skinny black wires are screwed to earth of dash frame. There was and is no separate light fitting for the cig lighter on the Brumby. The power to original cig socket is now direct to the switched and latched power sockets. More power sockets to be installed at the back panel of the console where an ashtray lurked in 4 seater MY's. I'll get their power and earth from a safe source. Think it is sorted ...some earth hungry wiring set up I managed to screw up. lucky noughting burned :)

Next test, I'll try remember to have foot on brakes as well ...

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