Is it time? are EJ20T conversions - fully reliable?

[Fury]

OK , so heres the deal,
I have been thinking of doing the EJ20 conversion for a while now, and an opportunity has come up.
BUT...
after reading everyone's posts, the pros, the cons , in the end, is it worthwhile and is there a justifiable result? I am NOT cashed up, so , if go ahead with this, I want to use the donor parts as much as practical.

The end result MUST be a good , reliable car, which will be restored to being a NICE care once again.

So far, the main research to date has been on this, and the previous forums. The technique how to do it etc, but really sounds like a lot of effort, especially if you don't know exactly what to do, and getting information from here, there, this post and that post etc.


This is what I have come up with:

Car to convert: '88 AX7 XT Vortex, 4wd 5 speed EA82T ( basically an L series under the skin)
to EJ 20 T engined, with the donor being a:
Front cut EJ20T (either 90 Legacy or 95 WRX) to be decided.

From where I see it, there are 3 options

1. Running gear(engine, box, diff ECU and modded loom (all from donor front cut)
2. As above but using the EA82 gearbox with an adaptor plate
3. As 1, but with donor suspension, hubs brakes etc

So to do item 1
pull the running gear
Modify the ea82T cross-member (elongating the holes to suit the new mounts)
Modify the chassis rails ( somehow)
Modify the radiator mounting
Fit engine and box ( after replacing timing belts and hoses)
Modify the ea82 gearbox mount to suit new box
Have custom made CV driveshafts made, with ea82t hub ends and EJ20t splines (with distances recalculated to suit)
fit the clutch master cyl for hydraulic clutch
modify and fit doner pedal box to suit
Modify gearlever linkages
modify dump pipe and integrate into exaust system
transfer the diff center to 4.11 ( from 3.7)
shorten ( calculate new length) drive shaft (150mm approx from back end of gearbox)
strip loom and integrate into system ( errrrrrrr .... there seems to be no shaking of head with sheer terror emotion) 8O 8O 8O
somehow get the whole shebang running without it catching fire or killing it in the process.

item 2:
Somehow acquiring an appropriate adaptor plate

item 3:
Assuming this has somehow miraculously gone to plan so far, adapting the donor car front suspension, hubs, brakes and struts to suit the Vortex - which is basically an L series frame.
and converting the back end as well ( and shudders with utter terror)

I have no clue if the WRX suspension setup is the same or similar as the Legacy/ Liberty - and what the hell to do

What have I forgotten and overlooked, what are the main things to look out for, and someone tell me WHY am I thinking of doing this! 8O

Now that this is down in front of me, someone please talk me out of this before it goes too far and gets out of control.

I am sure I have seen a detailed conversion for this procedure, but I can't find it - probably just doing what my kids used to do and look straight past what I am looking for.

Experience to do this????? ( shudder again) not confident, but have removed / replaced engines, replaced clutches, brakes, suspension etc basic 12 v wiring. Handy , clewey... and can modify, weld and usually think my way out of tricky situations - but this SEEMS a little overwhelming - particularly the integration of the wireing.

...and 1 last thing, I need it legal in NSW

Reason to do even think about this - I dont know !! Someone give me one !!

[Pete]

You won't get the turbo legal in NSW without engineering. sorry

I believe the biggest you can do is the N/A EJ20 without engineering headaches.

Reliability; as good as the doner car ie. excellent. As long as your work is up to scratch.

If you have pulled engines / gearboxes you will have no hassles with the hardware. The electrics will require patience and working systematically but not that big a deal, just think thrice, measure twice and cut once

And remember the forum is a HUGE resource, all you gotta do is ak.

Oh yeah, there is a sticky up the top of this forum with a pretty complete EJ into EA swap procedure.

[MUDRAT]

Righteo . . . As the car is already a turbo, I don't think you have to get it engineered.

In addition, the chassis rails do not have to be modified on this vehicle.

If you're on a tight budget, keep the EA82 gearbox but upgrade the clutch.

As you've already got an EA82T, a lot of things are already taken care of like the fuel pump and the crossmember notch etc etc.

When it comes down to buying the engine, you just need to sit down and do your maths too. Depending on who you buy it off, you might be better off with just an engine. If you need to go and purchase all the auxiliaries as well like exhaust manifold, turbo, AC compressor, power steering pump etc etc you may be better off with the front cut.

EJ reliabiliy is far superior to EA82. It might just be because they're newer, but they are far better engineered.

PS Do yourself a favour and get someone else to strip the loom.

[Outback bloke]

The vortex is excellent to put an EJ in. The engine bay lends itself nicely to it with both factory fans being able to be kept on the Lib radiator. The hydraulic clutch assy also fits very well.

With out a doubt the very best way to do this is to buy a front cut, especially if you are on a budget. You should be able to find a Legacy cut for around $2500 or less including rear diff. WRX, add about a grand for exactly the same stuff.

You get nearly every thing you need to modify your car. All you should need is a modded tail shaft and exhaust patch.

If you buy it all seperately you will end up spending more in the end and you also have the headaches of trying to find it all and work out exactly what you need. A few quickies off the top of my head would be, radiator (mod or buy), boost control, ignitors, computer and loom, clutch, dump pipe diff etc.

[Fury]

My main concern is the wiring... anyone offering to help with stripping the loom ? or how much will someone do it for me?

I am assuming that the EJ engine wiring, sensors and ecu stuff should be working and complete in the 1/2 cut. Stripping down the extras from the engine shouldn't be too bad, but the dash is a real worry.

I think the Legacy is the way to go, and have my eye on one for about $2.5k . I would probably be doing the conversion in QLD, not at home in NSW. The one I am looking at is early 90's so will be simpler wiring than the later ones ( I hope).

If I am going to do it, I will work on it full time till it's done. This is my drive car and need it.

Anyone have a rough idea on how long it would take? I understand that everyone works at different speeds, but just approximate - or how long it took you...

If I make the decision to do this today, I'll get the 1/2 cut tomorrow - but I cant afford to be left stranded, so will need help with some of this.


Sorry i am being repedetave , Tim's post seems very comprehensive ( now that I found it -wiping egg of face ) I suppose I was also looking for a bit of assurance. I cant afford to stuff this up Brett's comments have also helped with my mrs...

The vortex is excellent to put an EJ in

Thanks, she needed to hear that - and so did I

Thanks guys
Chris

[MUDRAT]

I think Sunspares can strip a loom for you for about $150. After this all you need to do is plug everything in, it's a bit of a no-brainer.

[vladrulli]

I but an ej20t with an auto trans into my GL coupe...

I had to modify the fuel tank and run new lines to a new pump to cope with the engine... you won't have to do any of that...

taking the old engine out and putting the new engine and the trans in took about 4 hours - that includes modifying the non-turbo crossmember and modding the powersteering lines...

wiring loom is another story... would have somebody else do that but there is no such service here in Iceland...

I would guess that two weeks is a realistic time to fully complete a conversion... but it really depends on how quickly you'll get all your custom made parts - shafts, radiator etc...

[MUDRAT]

I reckon if you had all the gear out and ready to go, all the right tools and you didn't have to go down to the shops to buy anything at all, the wiring loom was stripped, you could knock it over in a day. If not an easy weekend - minus getting the exhaust built.

[Pete]

Righteo . . . As the car is already a turbo, I don't think you have to get it engineered.

Ahhh hell, foot in mouth disease That's what I get for posting when I am half asleap

I would like to know how you go with NSW rego though. Have you run it past them 'hypothetically' yet ?

I got a plesant suprise when I did this with SA rego and got told I could run the SOHC 2.2 N/A in a Brumby with no other mods.

And if the wiring is your only real concern, then as MUDRAT said, $150 makes it a no brainer ..

[Outback bloke]

Where abouts in Qld are you going to be doing it? If you brought the harness around here I could show you how to do it yourself, or you could drop it here one weekend and pick it up the next and I could do it for $120.

[Fury]

I have a quote from Sunspares of around $300 to strip + cost of half cut and diff at $2750

I havn't asked how long it would take to strip the loom, but assuming it would only take a day or so.

Is the Legacy drive splines the same as the EA82t splines? if not, who makes custom CV joints in the SE QLD area? Also, the rear diff - I believe it just bolts up... can anyone confirm...

I havn't committed myself yet, but tomorrow could be the big day... 8O

I havn't asked the RTA yet, as I am in QLD, but will try to just put it through as a change in number and from an 1.8 to a 2 lt - maybe , being a Legacy, the output power wont exceed the 15% ( and on paper I will make sure it doesn't) - assuming it is 15%.

Otherwise im in deep s... and may then have to upgrade brakes etc quicker than I expected.

[MUDRAT]

RTA's VSI06 only quantifies engine capacity - not power. If anyone (including me) has ever said anything to the contrary then they're wrong - 15% increase in cubic capacity. NA to Turbo is a different story though!

Check it all out HERE.

As for custom CV joints all you have to do is replace the inner cup with that of an EJ series one - you can do this yourself. You can also use your standard Vortex diff provided the ratios are the same as your new gearbox. You will need a new tailshaft though.

[Fury]

The new box I believe is a 4.11 ( std legacy) and Vortex is 3.7
Thanks for the rta link, I have been searching for that.

I hope I am going to be OK going from 1.8 Turbo to 2lt Turbo as technically it is slightly less than 12% increase in cc .. I hope this is as easy as everyone is sounding ... (:) I think)

If anyone (including me) has ever said anything to the contrary then they're wrong - 15% increase in cubic capacity

I was not said, but I assumed that the red tape fellas could enforse if they wanted to, but you have now given me the document that spells it all out Ill go and have a good read... but so far lookin good.
... continued Thanks

[MUDRAT]

Well until I read that RTA document I thought it was 15% capacity OR power . . . that's what happens when you just listen to people rather than dig around and find out for yourself. My bad.

[Fury]

I didn't see your post there Brett:

Where abouts in Qld are you going to be doing it? If you brought the harness around here I could show you how to do it yourself, or you could drop it here one weekend and pick it up the next and I could do it for $120

I may take you up on that . I will be making my decision tonight and may drop around to see you in the next day or so (at your convenience) I am currently staying at Ormeau (south Beenleigh)and going to do it there.
I also have to work part of the weekend, doing this film shoot on Morton Bay again, so not sure of times till I sound the all clear for filming ( due to strong winds, swell size and weather). I think I have your mobile no somewhere, If I cant find it, i'll pm you .. Thanks

[PeeJay]

Are you sure you have to replace the inner cv cups? My brother just used the standard rx turbo ones and they seem to work ok.

[Chris_Rogers]

would like to know this as well as I'm about to do the same thing.

[BaronVonChickenPants]

RX Turbo ones will work too, but it's generally much easier to find some EJ inner cups than RX Turbo shafts.

Jordan.

[Chris_Rogers]

thats what I wanted to hear! ( since I already have them fitted from factory!)

[Fury]

I thinkthat the RX turbo ones are the std EA82T shafts in all late model L or Vortex turbos, so bonus of not having to do these, as they should be right.

If they are not, than I allready have the EJ cups on the 1/2 cut

COOL