ABS Brakes suck

madmat · Post by **madmat** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:22 pm

Has anyone had this problem and got a solution?
I have owned a few 4wds without ABS brakes in the past and one of the great things about not haveing ABS is that on dirt, mud or sand you can lock the wheels and as the tyres skid the pile of dirt they build up in front of them stop the car reasonably fast.

This last weekend i have been on stockton beach playing as we do when i have hit the brakes expecting to stop only to find the ABS kicks in and causes the car to take a much longer time than expected to stop. This has also happened on dirt roads and mud in the past.

I have wondered if pulling the fuse would work but thought i should ask the question of those that have gone before me. So please realese your wisdom upon me before i fail to stop at the crest of the next cliff.

Prunes · Post by **Prunes** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:02 am

I have been told that it works, the easiest way to test is to pull it and try, surely it wouldnt stop the breaks from working at all that would be a massive safety issue, just have the hand break ready just incase :P

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:34 am

Absolutely this is a necessary modification for off roading. In muddy (or indeed sandy) conditions the ABS doesn't allow the wheels to lock up when you actually need them to and hey presto, you can have you, your family and the family car loaded with all your belongings heading backwards fast down a steep muddy incline, with no grip, toward the car behind you waiting at the bottom.

Many people arrange an on/off switch for the ABS system that just interrupts the fuse. Either that or do what you suggested and just pull it out - that will disable it as well... not your brakes.. just the ABS system. I don't think the RTA would like it, still, it's either that or a crash. Plenty of 4WDers have done it to their bigger 4WDs as well.

fredsub · Post by **fredsub** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:57 am

Prunes wrote:I have been told that it works, the easiest way to test is to pull it and try, surely it wouldnt stop the breaks from working at all that would be a massive safety issue, just have the hand break ready just incase :P

why would it be a massive safety issue ?

been driving cars long time - no abs brakes, cars still braked:p

I think its true about whats said about people's perceived risk factor....
its why it seems people apparently tail gate you more these days...they think
they can trust the damn brakes more instead of leaving a good margin:mad:

hmm i'll havta look at doing this switch on the OBW, anyone already done it?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:25 pm

fredsub wrote:why would it be a massive safety issue ?

Re read his post, it was said that if pulling the fuse made the brakes stop working altogether that it would be a massive safety issue, not that removing abs would be a massive safety issue.

The ABS in the outback has not caused me any dramas whatsoever.

subalex · Post by **subalex** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:39 pm

If I were you, I'd check with the RTA and/or your insurer as to what would be approved (unless someone else here knows the real deal with it). Eg. you pull the fuse out and then forget to put it in again when you hit the tarmac again and you smash up the front so as not to be able to put the ABS fuse back in then you're stuffed... I think. Likewise with the switch. If the car is fitted with ABS then usually they insure it as being operational and, hence, reduce your premium because of it's recognised safety benefit. Disable it and the insurer may come back at your claim with a "...but you disabled the unit that could have prevented the accident." Still, it's no different when we consider installing a manual override switch for the thermofans when we want to rig up dual thermos and switch them off for river crossings. If we turn the fans off for a crossing then fail to watch the temp guage go through the roof afterwards and let the engine cook, our insurer can tell us to get stuffed. That would be fair too unless they've said they'll cover you with that modification.

Since we 4WDers recognise advantage of disabling the ABS system there should some 4WD insurers that do likewise. For instance, my insurance policy was not offered to me direct from Allianz (they told me that they don't cover modified vehicles) when I tried shopping around but a 4WD Insurance Broker found a product offered by them that covers me for every square inch of the land and sea in my Subie including all of its modifications.

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:33 pm

Anyone confirm it?

madmat · Post by **madmat** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:03 pm

As i understand it when i pull the fuse i will get a light on the dash saying the ABS is disabled. I will have a play with it when i finish fixing the damm head gaskets. I will post my results for others info.

madmat

mattims · Post by **mattims** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:42 pm

Yeah i have removed the fuse in my B4 for track work. For some reason it works really well for one stop, but once the brakes have heated up the ABS comes in way too early.. so i remove the fuse for track days. You will get a light on the dash but otherwise everything is ok (cept no ABS).

Suba · Post by **Suba** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:48 pm

I want to know what insurance company covers your cooked motor

lol .

Mike.

mattims · Post by **mattims** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 am

me too ... I'm on my third motor in the B4 now .. one more and i will have spent more on the motor's than the car.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 am

so u want to remove ABS braking...when its a tried and tested safety feature shown to improve car stopping distances...ok.

on sand rip the handbrake. that will lock the wheels. and if u want more sand getting stuck up infront the the tyres. spin the steering wheel to the left or right as u stop.

until i drive one with ABS on sand...i probly wont no why u wuld want to seriously do it. ive never needed to slam the brakes on to stop...dunno wt ur doing wrong

and even if i do drive with ABS. not sayin ill be wanting to remove the fuse neway. it will more than likely stay there

madmat · Post by **madmat** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:38 am

Hey Matatak you come for a drive with me sometime and see how freaky it is to have your foot hard on the brakes trying to stop and the car is going forward like you have a light break application. It.s not that i want to always stop fast but just stopping would be nice.

as you may know when you try and stop on sand you only need a light break aplication to get the car to stop very fast because the wheels lock into the sand , but with the ABS as soon as this happens the ABS releases the the breakes and the wheel then rolls over the mound of sand it has built up increasing the stoping distance.

The only time i have found ABS to be an excellent feature is when i'm on a bitumin road other than that i have found it to be less effective than open breaks with me using the cadence braking system as i needed to.

Anyway one day you may get the chance to drive with abs

mattims · Post by **mattims** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:05 am

on loose gravel roads crawling down a steep driveway i could push the brake pedal all the way to floor and the car would not stop at all because of the ABS. Its really good for emergencies on the road. But it can be dangerous offroad. I would also say once you have lifted your car and put bigger tires on it that it would be very unlikely to operate at the correct point.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:02 am

How about a push button switch, so you have to be pushing the switch to disable the ABS, that way you cant forget it when you are back on the road.

gx_rex · Post by **gx_rex** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:37 am

if you are worried about insurance not covering if they find a missing fuse then another alternative is to get a spare fuse and short it on a battery to blow it. keep that in with your spares and swap that in when you go off road. pretty hard to prove that it didnt happen in an accident...

madmat · Post by **madmat** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:49 am

i like the push button idea

Point · Post by **Point** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:45 pm

trouble is you'd have to push the button while braking...you should have both hands on the wheel.

you could set it up with a latching relay so that pushing the button activates the relay, and it then holds the relay on, until you either turn it off (with another switch) or it resets when you turn the car off.

daveosubi · Post by **daveosubi** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:17 pm

Could you use the switch for the low range? and have an overide aswell?

Also what the brake bias like with the fuse removed, is it the same a non-abs model?.

madmat · Post by **madmat** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:55 pm

Point wrote:trouble is you'd have to push the button while braking...you should have both hands on the wheel.

you could set it up with a latching relay so that pushing the button activates the relay, and it then holds the relay on, until you either turn it off (with another switch) or it resets when you turn the car off.

Hmmm good point i am usually focused on stoping rather than looking for a switch.