5 stud conversion for the vortex...

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:47 pm

Okay, so as please correct any of the following:

Impreza struts will fit the XT/L series strut towers AND L SERIES CALIPERS WILL FIT SOME OF THE LEGACY FRONT HUBS? - WHICH ONES???
...with liberty axles and ball joints thats the front sorted, right?

for the back, I shoul just need XT6 hubs & Discs? If needed I can modify the XT backing plate to fit the XT caliper if the XT6 disc is a different size, yeah?

Sounds simple enough...

Thanks guys...
Neville.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:43 am

I'm pretty sure you'll find that Liberty, Impreza, Legacy, Forester, Outback, WRX & early STI all use the same hubs & axles, the brakes are all interchangeable, you just need different wheels to cover 4 pots or Brembo's.
Got no idea about the rear set up you are talking about.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:05 am

If you use liberty/impreza parts for the front and XT6 parts for the rear, you will end up with no handbrake.

Im not sure what was involved in converting the rear l series to liberty/impreza, but it might have been hard, thus the reason for the crossbred brake conversion kit

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:53 am

Yeah, thats why I said I'll put The Lseries calipers on the front. I heard they will fit some of the EJ series hubs, but not sure which ones...If the above post is accurate, maybe all of them:)

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:50 am

I remember seeing somewhere that Nissan 180sx/silvia brakes are very similar to l series or liberty brakes. You might be able to make a hybrid brake setup

DavesB4 · Post by **DavesB4** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:32 pm

The hardest part is finding XT6 rear hubs and brakes!!

Chris_Rogers · Post by **Chris_Rogers** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:11 pm

swap it to the rear - its a LOT easier. XT6 Hubs - WRX COMPLETE rear brake assy - 1994 honda civic sedan handbrake lever and the Liberty cables. done.

hubs will be the worst part.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:53 pm

OKAY, so how exactly does the liberty / impreza rear drum hand brake work along with the XT6 hub - do you just use the XT6 hub, then the liberty backing plate, disc, and calipers?

...sounds interesting...

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:41 am

If you want to make up backing plates/rear caliper mounts any suitable caliper would work .

Some Nissan cable HB calipers fit the L/XT bracket section so you dont have to use the internal drum as a HB mechanism .

I still reckon L front HB calipers mounted on early Lib RS caliper brackets is easiest (basically XT6 system) . Don't forget that rear wheel E brakes are the easiest way to swap ends and crash into things side or rear on . This is why cars are designed to understeer - if you have to hit something better a front end collision because of crumple zones and engine/trans designed to go underneath while absorbing some of the impact . Admittedly locked front wheels don't steer but once the tail comes round it doesn't matter where the front wheels point anyway .

Cheers A .

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:03 pm

But liberty backing plates, discs, and calipers could be used with the XT6 rear hubs?

I have 2 other questions
...why the need for new Hbrake lever?
and....why are master cylinder adapters included in the crossbred kit?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:54 am

The CrossBred rear hub is dimensionally the same as the XT6 rear hub .

The reason the rear adapter back plates gets involved is that std they are nothing like the L/Vortex ones .
1st gen Liberty rear brakes were the next evolution beyond the L/Vortex system , the changes run like this :

L/XT4 - Rear disc with the disc bolted onto the inside of the hub - no HB .
XT6.. - Rear disc with disc over outside of hub ........................- no HB
Lib 1G- Rear disc over outside of hub - internal drum HB .

The XT6 was an in between using the outside mounted disc and no rear handbrake , this is why their discs are so small - no internal drum . It also meant that Subaru could use their existing caliper and back plate XT4/XT6 .

The XT6 rear hub has its flange moved inwards compared to the L/XT4 so that when the hat section of the disc is taken into account the wheels bolt to the car in the same position as an XT4 - in other words same distance between wheel mounting surfaces .

If you can leave the HB in the std position you lose a whole lot of complexity in this conversion . Front hardware (struts/brakes aside) you could do the whole conversion easily if you had the XT6 (or CrossBred) rear hub and disc/front control arms modded to take the later front ball joints and 1G Lib RS front caliper brackets .
Certification would be a no brainer because this is what Subaru used on XT6's and they were sold here new - instant ADR approval .

So rear hub/disc goes bolt - with std caliper/backplate .

Front bits use Impreza struts/Lib CV's/RS caliper brackets/modded control arms . Should all bolt together and in theory you wouldn't even have to bleed the brakes .

Cheers A .

DavesB4 · Post by **DavesB4** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:08 pm

Small technical detail - XT6 was never sold here.

It was only JDM and US market car. Some have escaped those confines and live elsewhere. I know of only one XT6 in Sydney.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:28 pm

Fair enough , the ones I saw must have been XT4's . I only know of one (word of mouth) in Victoria . That would explain why there are no XT6 rear disc's to be had here ...
Still if enough people wanted them say for a group buy surely they could be ordered in from the US , would very likely be a cheaper kit option than the adapters and modified Lib back plates .
I wouldn't think too many engineers would knock back factory engineering particularly if the braking equipment is dimensionally the same as RX turbo L .

Cheers A .

DavesB4 · Post by **DavesB4** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:46 am

Mate - those XT6 rear hubs are like GOLD - even in the US of A!!

Log onto SubaruXT.com (used to be XT6.net) and see just how many of the yanks are hunting for them as well. Every time somebody breaks up an XT6 there are at least 10 guys looking for the hubs.

This is because it is the easiest 5 stud conversion for any L series or Vortex. And then all (well almost all - later STi rims don't) late model Subaru rims fit. They know them in America as simply XT or XT-T. Vortex here has the same 140mm pcd 4 stud setup as all the early Subarus. The only thing that fits them is Peugeot rims. I reckon if they were a more common PCD and a wider variety of rims were available readily there wouldn't be so many people wanting to convert.

You can do the front from Impreza/Liberty bits but it's the rears that are unique.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:10 am

Well better brakes , mainly front , is a substantial part of the functional advantage of the L/Vortex 5 stud conversion . You can also throw the dinosaur front strut/strut foot away and use common Impreza bits .

I'd just like XT6 rear discs (just the rotors) for convenience and the lighter mass than Lib stuff .
An RX L weighs ~ 1070Kg where a 1G Lib AWD sedan is ~ 1300+ , I think a std RS version is ~ 1345 ?
The front does most of the braking esp in a front heavy car like MY/L/Liberty sedans . Race rally or gargantuan RV boots would be reason enough for large rear brakes - XT6's used smallish discs and they seem to be ok for road .

Cheers A .

Chris_Rogers · Post by **Chris_Rogers** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:33 pm

nncoolg wrote:OKAY, so how exactly does the liberty / impreza rear drum hand brake work along with the XT6 hub - do you just use the XT6 hub, then the liberty backing plate, disc, and calipers?

...sounds interesting...

nope you use the whole lot. that setup is EXACTLY what is under mine.

the handbrake works exactly as it is supposed to. the reason for the lever swap is the L series lever cables point forward and pull from the front. the legacy setup pulls from the rear so the L series item won't work.

yes XT6 hubs are rare but the ones that are floating around here are ALMOST an exact copy of them.

discopotato wrote: Fair enough , the ones I saw must have been XT4's . I only know of one (word of mouth) in Victoria . That would explain why there are no XT6 rear disc's to be had here ...
Still if enough people wanted them say for a group buy surely they could be ordered in from the US , would very likely be a cheaper kit option than the adapters and modified Lib back plates .
I wouldn't think too many engineers would knock back factory engineering particularly if the braking equipment is dimensionally the same as RX turbo L .

they are no longer available from the USA. I tried. from japan - yep (most of the L series stuff is still made and available.)

find the correct engineer and they will sign off on a brake swap quite easily.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:43 pm

I asked one of the fellows from USMB to measure up an XT6 rear rotor and this is what they say .

Disk Thickness - 10mm .
Disc Diameter - 255mm .
Total height --- 60mm meaning 50mm hat section plus disc thickness .
Hat Diameter -- 155mm .

Will check dimensions off against L rear rotors .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:01 am

Finally the truth , the XT6 rear back plate which is also the caliper mount IS different to the XT4/L rear disc one . Its larger in diameter to fit the std rear L/XT4 rear caliper over the larger diameter disc , ~ 255mm vs 226mm .

If you had the XT6 back plate/disc rotor they'd work but honestly if you had to make the back plate you'd make it to suit the commonly available early Lib 266mm rear disc rotor .

Cheers A .

EG33 · Post by **EG33** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:30 pm

year xt6 stuff is rare in nz too. ive got an xt6 and the amount of guys that asked me 2 sell them my hubs off it. im not selling them off it tho. isnt there an outfit over your way some where that makes an kit or etc to fit impreza / legacy hubs to omega / vortex type subarus?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:55 pm

Sure is EG33. Its called the Crossbred 5 stud conversion and it's an off-the-shelf, complete bolt on, no brainer.