WAIC and an EA82T

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:49 pm

OK now just cause I have owned the old crappy EA technology for years (and years and years and years and yes when i have less EA parts then i'll move to a turbo EJ.
However for now its the ol EA82T and this does not mean that I have ever modified the daylights out of it so though that I might draw on some of the experience that I do not have.

I have trolled this forum (only at this stage) for information on WAIC however I have not been able to find all of the answers for my questions (all of which I am sure will be relatively easy for someone to answer).

Therefore in no specific order...

1a) I am assuming that the most suitable place for the WAIC radiator would be infront of the radiator and the a/c unit? Is this correct?

1b) If the answer to the above question is actually a yes, then is there much of an issue with air flow through to the radiator itself? I am aware that the WAIC unit is not that big however its still another item infront of the rad.

2a) I do not think that i have all the hoses required (i do need to have a closer look in the box), but again I am assuming that those of you running a WAIC, are just running some generic aftermarket radiator type lengths of hose?
2b) Have you been concerned with heat from the engine and running the hose through the wheel arch to attempt to minimize the amount of heat soak? or you think that this is really minimal and not worried about it?

3) Sorry this question requires me to ‘out’ some people, specifically Gannon, Subafury (Subarino even though yours is an EJ and a little different I was also curious/interested in seeing your system if you have it set up, I am just not sure if you decided to run a BOV in the end). SO the question is... Through my searching I have noticed that there are a few different methods of setting up the BOV with the WAIC and I am not sure why the difference and does this ultimately effect optimal performance or is it a preference thing?

To highlight what I am talking about (and save you trolling for the images for this question) I have included 2 pictures below (Gannon or Matt if there is an issues with me showing these images then let me know and I’ll remove them).

As you can see on early stages of Gannon’s unit (in the top pic) has the BOV and stuff coming out of the bottom line/hose whereas on Matt’s unit its all coming out of the top/front hose. What’s the go!? Should I be following 1 method other another and if so why?

Gannon

Matt

Sorry for the long post and cheers for any info.

BrennyV · Post by **BrennyV** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:58 pm

I see the WAIC to be a time consuming, cluttering and simply useless process unless you want to run higher amounts of boost or a larger turbo.
On a factory setup it would be more worth wile to run a good CAI (cold air induction) setup than bother with a WAIC.

my 2c

Xtreme_RX · Post by **Xtreme_RX** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:09 pm

A WAIC makes a huge difference to the EA82T. It is worth the trouble to fit. In saying that if you intend on running stock boost (6PSI) it is probably not worth the effort. Fit a bigger engine radiator instead.

BOV - waste of time on this motor, just listen to the waste gate flutter....

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:43 pm

1a) Yes have the WAIC radiator at the very front to give it the coolest possible air flow.

b) Yes i had issues with airflow and the factory radiator, but that was with 2 electric fans (one factory, the other a supercheap "Calibre" brand) I have since solved the problem by refitting the engine driven fan (it moves way more air than any electric fan will ever move)

2a) I used the metal twin pipes that came with the intercooler to run past the engine, some coolant hose and even some garden hose to connect the rest up.

b) I think its minimal, the water is moving pretty quick and rubber is a pretty good heat insulator

3. Outed or not, i used the factory RS bov cos the plastic elbow had the pipe for it. I really dont think it makes a difference where you put it. It also gives it a sorta factory appearance.

Please note that i also used a TF035 to replace the factory VF4, this made intercooler fitment much easier and if it breaks, they are easy to come by on forester forum classifieds. Mine cost me $100 with 80K kms on it. It is also idealy suited to the 1.8L EA82

If you have any more questions, or want more pictures, im more than happy to help

Gannon

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:09 pm

Cheers for the prompt replies guys - i appeaciate it.

Just to clarify a few minor issues I have left out.
- The WAIC installation is going on the RX which will initially be road use only.
- I already have (installed) the twin core (metal) radiator.
- In addition to this I have also will be running (already installed) the viscous engine fan and the factory 2nd fan – both in good condition and I have many spares of both. I also agree with the air flow Gannon hence their use.
- At this stage the engine will be factory settings until I get it all operating and any teething issues (which i'm sure i'll have) sorted.
- I have huge (for L series) cool air ducting. I have made about a 3” hole cut into a sealed air box and pannel with the pipe feeding cool air from inside the wheel arch. I have after market UniFilter here however will not instill it until after the pit inspection if at all (although the induction noise + turbo spool you can hear when this filter is on is insane though and I do love the noise it makes).

Once its operating as it should…
- There is no denying that the TF035 (and similar units) are far superior technology and upgrading would be more beneficial across the rev range then the VF4. I have considered upgrading however I have access to another 2 VF4 units sitting here and at this stage they are all in top working order (with the current unit with less then 80,000 kms on it).
- Aftermarket engine management will be serioulsy considered.
- Increased boost will be a definite, some kind of adjustable boost controller would be the ideal.
- My thoughts are that I just have the BOV here so may as well use. In addition to this we have actually noticed a huge difference using the atom BOV even on factory settings and we get a significant less lag – I do get he shits with the atom BOV noise sometimes and do miss the waste gate flutter though. Gannon I do love your factory look and think that it would be unnoticed on inspection and may consider this as an option in the future.

Lets face it at this stage I have the low km motor, spare turbos + heaps of other EA82T parts so I can attempt to kill stuff and as long as I do not pop the heads in the first few weeks I’ll be alright. Worst case I have another EA82T engine sitting here collecting dust and we still own the wagon which also still has all the 82T gear in it… after all of this THEN its finally off to EJ country (which some of you will be pleased about I am sure).

Gannon = champ. Thanks for the additional pictures I do not recall seeing in your other thread and should I need the additional assistance/pictures (which I am sure I will) I’ll be in touch.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:32 pm

Can't say when it goes on but I also have an RS WAIC kit of bits in the cave .

From a packaging point of view they are a quite reasonable solution in an L Series , I like the fact that they cool at low or no speed unlike an air to air intercooler .

The only thing I would do differently to some others is mount the heat exchanger on top of the bell housing rather than the spare wheel well . If its all basically engine/trans mounted it all move /shakes/vibrates together .

Cheers A . No scoop will blemish my bonnet .

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:47 pm

discopotato03 wrote:The only thing I would do differently to some others is mount the heat exchanger on top of the bell housing rather than the spare wheel well . If its all basically engine/trans mounted it all move /shakes/vibrates together .

Agreed Adrian and thats exactly what i was thinking as well.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:23 am

That crossed my mind when i did mine too, but with silicone hoses joining eveything together, it doesnt seem to be an issue.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:04 pm

I just worry when I look at gellato L engine and gearbox mounts . If the engine moved suddenly I'd wonder if it would pull the rubber/silicon hoses off .

Cheers A .

Suby Wan Kenobi · Post by **Suby Wan Kenobi** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:17 pm

I used all of the orginal hoses off the RS with the onse to the intercooler swapped around so they went further out in to the engine bay as the metal lines i have running along side the battery. I elongated the hole in the radiator support panel where the AC lines run through to accomodate the IC water lines. The pump mounts in under the guard in the same position as the RS unit does but you need to drill one hole in behind the battery. And i have the heat exchanger mounted same as above pics in front of radiator and have never had an issue with any overheating till i done a head gasket. I have an impreza twin core radiator with L ends on in. Am in the process of putting the spider manifold on so have rotated turbo front and have had to modify most things as i had only a bare manifold.

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:22 pm

Cheers SWK, i like your thinking on a few things there - hmmm (as i thinks to self).

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:46 am

Hi SWK , OT here but I'd like to know how the spider change over goes .
Obviously in an L Series the wiring needs to change ie extend the original engine looms wiring .
I had my plenum flange modified to take a std L throttlebody and hence 3P TPS , just need to re jig the throttle cable when we get to it .
Also in the US they say to check the straightness of all the spider manifold parts as they have been found to leak if anythings warped and doesn't bolt together properly .

This conversion (spider) will probably be the last one before my rebuilt engine goes in , when its changed has to be done in a day so all manifold issues have to be sorted beforehand . I have a couple of those rare Vortex rubber/plastic ducts that join the TB to the turbo outlet so no probs there .

Having the TB pointing backwards (and slightly upwards) means it points to where the WAIC heat exchanger needs to be so all good .

Cheers A .

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:43 pm

BrennyV wrote:I see the WAIC to be a time consuming, cluttering and simply useless process unless you want to run higher amounts of boost or a larger turbo.
On a factory setup it would be more worth wile to run a good CAI (cold air induction) setup than bother with a WAIC.

my 2c

the WAIC was one of the best things i did to my motor. i could feel her boostin a little harder after i put it in. And Blackmale already has a kick ass CAI- hello PVC snorkel!

my pump sat where gannon's is because i couldnt bleed it properly when i tried putting it in the guard, kept cavitating.

placement of bov isnt realy an issue as long as its between throttle body and afm. mine wasnt plumbed back as gannon's was as i had a microtech ecu. its the awesome wank factor you need, i miss it.

std heater hose was used in my installation, get it anywhere. cooling for you should be no probs with a dual core rad.

hope this helps

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:38 pm

Yer it did Matt thanks.

Subafury wrote:Blackmale already has a kick ass CAI- hello PVC snorkel!

Oh and i know it does not look the best however it is made out of metal PVC was a bit to lame. Works great but i have not changed the air filter in over 12 moths now cause it just not getting dirty.

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:18 am

discopotato03 wrote:The only thing I would do differently to some others is mount the heat exchanger on top of the bell housing rather than the spare wheel well . If its all basically engine/trans mounted it all move /shakes/vibrates together

BlackMale wrote:Agreed Adrian and thats exactly what i was thinking as well.

Well i had a quick look last night before it got dark and i hate to say it however at this stage the WAIC appears that the WAIC will not fit to the gearbox without cutting the spare wheel carrier (tool shelf) back/off or some majorly creative fab work. Without the lift there just does not appear to be enough space. Note even with it sitting on the shelf it does not interfear witht he bonnet so you'll still not have to worry about that scoop discopotato03.

Sorry if all this is common knowledge.
Cheers.

Suby Wan Kenobi · Post by **Suby Wan Kenobi** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:35 pm

There is just enough space to fit the WAIC without cutting into the spare wheel holder without a lift kit i had mine inthere without a problem. The IC was bolted to the gearbox, it sat as far forward as i could get it to clear. Now to find a pic of it.

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:11 pm

Suby Wan Kenobi wrote:There is just enough space to fit the WAIC without cutting into the spare wheel holder without a lift kit i had mine inthere without a problem.

LOL not from my initial look... not a chance of getting it in there.

Suby Wan Kenobi wrote: Now to find a pic of it.

SWK that would be awesome… I’ll get some of mine as well (and update this thread shortly).

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:47 pm

Suby Wan Kenobi wrote:I used all of the orginal hoses off the RS with the onse to the intercooler swapped around so they went further out in to the engine bay as the metal lines i have running along side the battery. I elongated the hole in the radiator support panel where the AC lines run through to accomodate the IC water lines. The pump mounts in under the guard in the same position as the RS unit does but you need to drill one hole in behind the battery. And i have the heat exchanger mounted same as above pics in front of radiator and have never had an issue with any overheating till i done a head gasket. I have an impreza twin core radiator with L ends on in. Am in the process of putting the spider manifold on so have rotated turbo front and have had to modify most things as i had only a bare manifold.

Did mine similar but different

I used the driver's side access to the front mudguard - using the OME RS pipes and hoses, cut and shut enough bends to avoid cutting metal. pump was mounted on the opposite side / location of the battery.

The heat exchanger fits in nicely using 6mm flat bar dropping off vertically from the bonnet catch and cable mount, again with a few bends. Sits low enough for clean airflow, level with the lip or radiator support.

Spider manifold goodness = HP gain. I was in love with mine - worth the effort to set up right.

Enjoy - WAIC makes the EA82T far more civilized, esp in traffic or heat.

Sven

BlackMale · Post by **BlackMale** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Well i found some time and got out in the heat to tinkered for a bit today…

The WAIC only just fits everywhere (although the pictures do not often reflect this). Took to the front with an angle grinder as I had to remove the lip from little bar that supports the grill. I have been very lucky that the pipes just have enough space to fit the hoses on and still clear the a/c lines. It’s also hard up against the bonnet latch and the RHS grill support is hard against the end tank. I was initially thinking of making up a small locating bracket for the WAIC radiator however the unit sits firmly against the a/c radiator and bonnet lactch itself – PHEW.

I was going to make up some small mounting bracket also to support the bottom of the WAIC radiator however it was so tight I was able to just drill 2 holes in the front apron and slot the WAIC radiator mounts to slot firmly into the holes – SWEET, its going well. Once the hoses are on its not going to move at all.

The WAIC unit itself I do not think will fit under the spare wheel shelf, SWK I’m going to have a look and attempt to get a picture.

Sorry the close up is not as effective as the air-to-air intake/BOV is still in place.

I have also considered where to run the lines and I have drilled through the side of the engine bay near the window washer motor on the LHS so I can run the hoses through there and along the wheel arch to the front of the car (they’ll re-enter after the battery around the LHS headlight, its all going to fit as I’ve already cheeked this out). Just need to figure out where the water pump thing is going to be mounted/located - hmmm off to look at some pictures

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:33 am

i see what u mean now with the waic not fitting on the gearbox- unless u move the bov setup. should be ok where youve got it tho. \
also remember to brace your bonnet catch with another bracket as the bonnet will wiggle up and down at speed.