build your own EJ AWD for your EA motor

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steptoe
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build your own EJ AWD for your EA motor

Post by steptoe » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:27 am

If there is not already a dedicated post to this topic, can this be it please?

I have searched and found snippets but nothing dedicated.

When I find the snippets I will cut and paste or just link, I encourage anyone who has posted and can find to do likewise.

I would like to do or maybe just buy (a preprepared one) EJ manual AWD box:

* so it will fit either behind either an EA81 or EA82 so gets L Series D/R 4WD 5 speed front casings
* be 3.7:1 diff ratio to match my current rear, or if someone can demonstrate due to ratio changes between L Series 5 speed and AWD, that another ratio diff will be a better match.
*get the front diff stubs from 23 spline (std) L Series 5 speed so it won't need shaft swapsies
* have same splines on input shaft as L series or spec a drive plate
* whether dual range or even L Series low range is lowest demand priority for my first box
* be able to retain L Series flywheel and clutch options and the cable

From what I can see using the L Series casings you retain the same gearbox crossmember and mounts so no mods there?

No adapter plate between engine and AWD box

I now understand the common EJ AWD low range only considered to be helpful pulling a tinny from the boat ramp ( a rev change of only a bout 500rpm as said by Subaru parts guy) and is not as serious as the L Series lo range ratio,

If all the possibilities open could be discussed that'd be great.

My intention is to have all the options covered in here. Such as if the L Serie tail shaft just fits up or modded, the box options, clutch options. I know some EJ set ups used hydraulic instead of clutch cable, some were expensive pull type clutch, unsure as to whether the box dictates clutch type

Hope you can see where I am heading with this.

Someone mentioned somewhere that members in here build these boxes for sale?

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discopotato03
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Post by discopotato03 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:30 pm

You won't buy anything off the shelf because they didn't make anything with the lower low range and AWD - period . The closest would be a JDM or USDM L RX Turbo AWD box and all thats missing from your wish list is the short low range ratio .

Other than starting with that combination you're up for a hybrid EJ DR AWD gearbox rebuilt in L series front casings . I think you need to shorten the tailshaft because the extention housing is longer in the EJ viscous type AWD boxes .

If you want a bolt in unit you have to buy or build the L type AWD box because they are the correct length and bellhousing .
If you can live without a low range then AWD Vortex boxes turn up from time to time and can be converted to DR if you have a DR part time 4WD L series donor box .

Turbo L boxes have the 3.7 final drive BUT they also use a wider ratio gearset than the carby L boxes .
There were only ever two front diff ratios for the L AWD boxes because the pinion is unique to these transmissions and only available in 3.7 and 3.9:1 . the 3.9 was from the AWD option Vortex XT6 so quite rare .

If off road is your bent then seriously the part time L box with the lower low range is simplest and cheapest .

You can build what you want but must start with an AWD L box to have it standard length .
Mine is a hybrid bitzer L AWD one with the short low range and amazingly the closer ratio gearset (same as carby L) .

I would NOT limit myself to 23 spline diff stubs because the 25 spline stuff is not difficult to arrange . RX turbo shafts are out there , I have a few spares , and the DOJ's and 25 spline L CV's are out there too . Stronger shafts with larger balls and races in the joints are a good thing and slot into any L front hub .

Your call .

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Post by El_Freddo » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:40 pm

To create an AWD box for the EA series motors - L series specific here - you'll need to create a new gearbox crossmember as the rear casing is a different shape, and as disco has said, the rear casing is also longer, this means that the tail shaft and gear shift selectors will need to be shortened - and the hi/low shifter will need to be sorted with a cable or rod assembly from the front of the gearbox straight to the selector. You'll also need to sort out a hold position for this selector if its not already done in the gearbox with the low range mod (L series low range).

As for the final drive, from what I understand, the gen 1's had 3.9 ratio and the gen 2's had 3.7 ratio. To get a box to suit the L series WITHOUT going a tyre size larger, you'd need the forward gearsets from the 3.9 box and the ring/pinion gears from the 3.7 box. This will give you a set of gears that are the closest to the L's. If you just want the speedo to run true it should be as easy as sourcing an L series speedo gear to shove in the EJ box...

I've got all the bits sitting in the shed ready to go, its just a case of wether or not you want the L series low range - which you would have to supply.

Cheers

Bennie
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AlpineRaven
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Post by AlpineRaven » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:58 pm

Mmm I am doing another EA/EJ hybrid casing at the moment. This gearbox I'm doing is 3.9:1 diff replacing 3.7:1.

Agreed above.

For Low Range selector, You can accept the shifter with cable like what Liberty has, they're better & easier but you'll need to modify a ball bearing so that the selector will stay in position, if you don't it'll pop out of the gear.

I never noticed the rpm difference but I don't think its 500rpm difference, but I think that was with 1.19:1 ratio then that sound about right but unless you are at higher RPM then its different.

Stubs is easy - its held by circlip so you can change it while the gearbox is opened up. I'd go for the common splines.

Gen 1 & 2 Liberty N/As are pull clutch, not Hydraulic, 3rd Gen Liberty and onwards are Hydraulic.

Cheers
AP
Subarus that I have/had:
1995 Liberty "Rallye" - 5MT AWD, LSD - *written off 25/8/06 in towing accident.
1996 Liberty Wagon - SkiFX AWD 5MT D/R, Lifted.. Outback Sway Bar, 1.59:1 Low Gearing see thread: 1.59:1 in EJ Box Page
Sold at 385,000kms in July 2011.
2007 Liberty BP Wagon, 2.5i automatic
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:32 pm

The main aim will be to fit under the standard height Brumby trans tunnel.

Bennie has refreshed my memory... I pictured in head a little too positively - thinking cross member bolts to front casings, but it don't.

Someone has mentioned at an earlier time that someone else on here has done the custom build EJ AWD with L Series cases and standard stubs as a service for sale, not just a once off fro themselves.

Thinking a newer EJ box converted would be an easier find and more plentiful in replacement parts.

Raven , you may have confused the pull type clutch with standard old school type clutch, it is in its operation that its name comes from, not the cable or hydraulic componentry.

For my first foray into an EJ AWD to simplify things I'd be happy with a no low range box, just straight AWD 5 speed 3.7:1 with L Series stubs., and use L Series clutch and clutching bits. I should just buy a box and suck it and see. I have stubs and casings. Only thing about buying a box is if it is stuffed i obnly find out after having put it all back together and in, then no comeback on warranty, so not want to pay too much. Also need to find space and peace and quiet to attempt this.

Engineer certificates mention speedo accuracy keeping within applicable ADR. Happy with current engine speed rev match I have with 3.7 diff - just walked up a long steep road today at 84kph (speed camera on duty) passed a seemingly impressed subi owner beside me. i was in top and not making much noise at all

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discopotato03
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Post by discopotato03 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:51 pm

25 spline DOJ's are grass seeds , all front drive libs have them .
Strongest and largest are the RX Turbo/Vortex Turbo and interestingly XT6's used them too with even larger diameter axle shafts than RX's .

Most diff ratios vary by approximately 5% ie 3.7-3.9-4.1 etc , some are 4 some are 6% but average out at ~ 5 .

A .

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H-top
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Post by H-top » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:58 pm

Do you need a single range ea box to start with or can you use a dr with no low range internals?
H-Top

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AlpineRaven
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Post by AlpineRaven » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:13 am

H-top wrote:Do you need a single range ea box to start with or can you use a dr with no low range internals?
I can point one thing, about dual range is that the main shaft is in 2 pieces for dual range step down in gearing.
Single Range has 1 whole main shaft right thru from input to the end & the input shaft area is different.. So the answer is possibly no...

here is a pic of single range EJ AWD
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here is a pic of dual range EJ AWD
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Spot the difference!

Cheers
AP
Subarus that I have/had:
1995 Liberty "Rallye" - 5MT AWD, LSD - *written off 25/8/06 in towing accident.
1996 Liberty Wagon - SkiFX AWD 5MT D/R, Lifted.. Outback Sway Bar, 1.59:1 Low Gearing see thread: 1.59:1 in EJ Box Page
Sold at 385,000kms in July 2011.
2007 Liberty BP Wagon, 2.5i automatic
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H-top
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Post by H-top » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:19 am

I like possibly :) gives me some hope lol
H-Top

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Gannon
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Post by Gannon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:19 pm

I know people have been making adapter plates since EJ engines were first put into earlier Subes, but is it possible to swap bellhousings between engines so the EJ gearbox will bolt straight to the EA engine?
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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GOD
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Post by GOD » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:26 pm

Suparoo wrote:I know people have been making adapter plates since EJ engines were first put into earlier Subes, but is it possible to swap bellhousings between engines so the EJ gearbox will bolt straight to the EA engine?
No. EJs don't have a separate bolted-on bellhousing like the old engines do. The EJ bellhousing is part of the block castings.

Dane.
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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:40 pm

Suparoo wrote:I know people have been making adapter plates since EJ engines were first put into earlier Subes, but is it possible to swap bellhousings between engines so the EJ gearbox will bolt straight to the EA engine?
GOD wrote:No. EJs don't have a separate bolted-on bellhousing like the old engines do. The EJ bellhousing is part of the block castings.

Dane.
This is what the thread is about... But no, subi boxes don't have a bell housing as such - BUT the front casings can be interchanged with a little bit of work by splitting the gearbox and swapping the internals and rear housings between the EA and EJ casings. This is what I've done with my EJ conversion to avoid an adapator plate (and retained the L series 4wd box too).

Cheers

Bennie
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Gannon
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Post by Gannon » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:55 pm

Ah yes come to think of it, the EJ doesnt have a removable bellhousing.

But i have heard that the bellhousings between EJ and EA auto transmissions are interchangeable.
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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twilightprotege
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Post by twilightprotege » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:48 pm

question - does an EA gearbox with EJ internals have the same length as an EJ gearbox? ie what i'm thinking of doing is putting EJ AWD internals in my EA box, shortening the driveshaft and using that for a while. then when i get an EJ20turbo, i'll just move the internals back to the EJ box and use it.

thoughts?
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AndrewT
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Post by AndrewT » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:46 pm

discopotato03 wrote:You won't buy anything off the shelf because they didn't make anything with the lower low range and AWD - period .
Except for early Impreza dual range AWD gearboxes. They had 1.5 low range off the shelf. Abit hard to find though.


But yeah, you'd obviously need to custom build a bits-a box to get it to bolt to an EA engine. (but should just fit an EJ motor too!).

Although adaptor plates work perfectly fine - tried and tested even on EJ20turbos without any issues at all, not sure why you'd bother messing around to avoid one. It's not hard to get a std AWD cased gearbox to fit in an EA car, just shorten the shifter linkages, shorten the tailshaft and mod the crossmember abit. You can use adaptor plates in reverse (fit EA engine to EJ gearbox) altho most people use them to fit EJ engine to EA gearbox.

It's also alot easier to just swap your rear diff for one that matches the gearbox rather than customise the gearbox to match your rear diff.

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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:45 pm

twilightprotege wrote:question - does an EA gearbox with EJ internals have the same length as an EJ gearbox? ie what i'm thinking of doing is putting EJ AWD internals in my EA box, shortening the driveshaft and using that for a while. then when i get an EJ20turbo, i'll just move the internals back to the EJ box and use it.

thoughts?
It would be far easier to do what Andrew's suggest below if you're going to be dropping an EJ in later down the track:
AndrewT wrote:Although adaptor plates work perfectly fine - tried and tested even on EJ20turbos without any issues at all, not sure why you'd bother messing around to avoid one. It's not hard to get a std AWD cased gearbox to fit in an EA car, just shorten the shifter linkages, shorten the tailshaft and mod the crossmember abit. You can use adaptor plates in reverse (fit EA engine to EJ gearbox) altho most people use them to fit EJ engine to EA gearbox.

It's also alot easier to just swap your rear diff for one that matches the gearbox rather than customise the gearbox to match your rear diff.
Second that one!

The reason I did my gearbox into an EJ casing was to avoid an engineer's report for the adaptor plate, plus it was cheaper for me to do it this way too - and I like to get my hands dirtys/look into new things that I haven't explored mechanically. I also needed as much room up front as possible...

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by AlpineRaven » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:47 pm

twilightprotege wrote:question - does an EA gearbox with EJ internals have the same length as an EJ gearbox? ie what i'm thinking of doing is putting EJ AWD internals in my EA box, shortening the driveshaft and using that for a while. then when i get an EJ20turbo, i'll just move the internals back to the EJ box and use it.

thoughts?
You can use EJ main internals in EA box, it'll fit straight in without problems.
The main housing (including bellhousing) is different in length, as EA box is 12mm shorter around where bellhousing is. I'll upload a picture of EA box tomorrow night.
Cheers
AP
Subarus that I have/had:
1995 Liberty "Rallye" - 5MT AWD, LSD - *written off 25/8/06 in towing accident.
1996 Liberty Wagon - SkiFX AWD 5MT D/R, Lifted.. Outback Sway Bar, 1.59:1 Low Gearing see thread: 1.59:1 in EJ Box Page
Sold at 385,000kms in July 2011.
2007 Liberty BP Wagon, 2.5i automatic
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twilightprotege
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Post by twilightprotege » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:15 pm

bennie that's why i was thinking of putting the ej internals in my ea box - cheaper, so long as i can use the shortened driveshaft when i go to a complete ej and and box setup

i've got no problem changing the gearset myself. cant be any harder than my mazda fwd gearbox
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06 Foz, 2" lift, 225/70/16 tyres

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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:12 am

is the AWD bit just in the back end? If so can you 'just' pull the L box down enough to stick the EJ rear section on?

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Post by AlpineRaven » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:18 am

steptoe wrote:is the AWD bit just in the back end? If so can you 'just' pull the L box down enough to stick the EJ rear section on?
Yes thats correct. The AWD Part is inside the transfer case. And it can mount behind on EA Casing. But you cannot use EA internals with EJ's AWD because the pinion shaft is completely different between EA & EJ.
Cheers
AP
Subarus that I have/had:
1995 Liberty "Rallye" - 5MT AWD, LSD - *written off 25/8/06 in towing accident.
1996 Liberty Wagon - SkiFX AWD 5MT D/R, Lifted.. Outback Sway Bar, 1.59:1 Low Gearing see thread: 1.59:1 in EJ Box Page
Sold at 385,000kms in July 2011.
2007 Liberty BP Wagon, 2.5i automatic
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