EDIS on EA81

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Slow going with a sick child

I just had another look. The electronic distributor shaft is rotated a good 10-15* CW from where the mechanical one is for the same crank position. No it's not off a tooth. That yields a massive difference in position. So I cranked the electronic distributor CW as far as it'll go in the adjustment slot. Ran out of time but I'll see what happens later on.

Incidentally all the backing / adjustment plates are the same right? I didn't grab the one from the wreckers because I didn't think I'd need it.

One last thing. This may or not be a big thing. You know how the distributor shafts where they are visible between the dist. body and gear have the machining marks visible. Well I noticed on my mech. dist maybe three or so visible grooves or scores just above the gear. I then looked at the elec. one for reference which had them in the same place only discoloured from heat. Please tell me this is a manufacturing quirk and not the cam trying to eat distributors

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Er, CCW. Apparently in my world clocks run backwards. I'm a special boy.

I had some forcibly made time today with totally inconsistent results. I just don't know what's going on. Hopefully the cap will be here by tomorrow. Man why can I buy every other wear item easily but not a distributor cap?

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:44 pm

It's not the coil lead. I don't think it is the coil either.

Today I went to start it with the electronic distributor with the GT40. Nothing.
Swapped in the mechanical distributor. Nothing.
Swapped in the GT40. Nothing.
Swapped in the other GT40. Nothing.
Swapped in the transformer coil. Start. Couldn't get it above idle though and it had no power at all. Not even enough to realistically budge it.
I tried squirting the cheap knockoff starter fluid into the intake working off the premise that if it was from a lean burn the revs would have increased. Nope. No difference.
When I twist the distributor one way it goes all slow and chuggy (retard) and the other way quick and smooth (advance), but both ways weak and uneven running. So it's not timing. I'm wondering if the condenser died sometime during the proceedings. But... BUT it doesn't explain another anomaly.
One of my first attempts today with the electronic distributor had the tach needle bouncing happily but it didn't fire.

When I got it to run with the mech dist and electronic coil the tach needle was violently twitching everywhere. Very strange.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Could it be the filer cap for the points?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:43 pm

BIC290 is the Bosch part number of the coil I got to suit my 84 Brumby with ignition module in case this helps

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:54 pm

Wow, RatCamper, this is some saga you have. I cannot find the will to read back through the other 62 posts on this to see if others or myself have suggested say.... what if an ignition switch and key

that you install up closer to the back end of your VW Kombi so you can be present when cranking - if so please fit a neutral switch so you no crush self or anyone, anything else.

I did a Toy KE30 into a Suz Sierra and turned it into a ball tearer with its Celica 5 speed and for life of me and few others could not start it cold by starter. Push or haul it up the drive and bump start it. Was fine the rest of the day, each day. Ended up hooking a hotwire with a momentary on switch connecting battery to coil for cold starts.

Suggested a deficiency in the Sierras ignition switch or circuit.Now think your old? camper may be in same boat??

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:06 pm

I am seriously starting to suspect that a fuel issue coincidentally developed when I started switching distributors. Because I haven't been able to get out to do anything to it I've had a lot of time to think about this.

The most recent reason is that I could only get it to start with the electronic coil and points distributor combination. I needed to shift it out of the way so I had to start it. It had no power at all and even idling it was cutting out constantly. At the time this didn't mean much to me because it's the wrong coil for points so running badly seemed meaningless. But the more I thought about it the more sense it made.

I can get it to idle and it keeps cutting out briefly. I can't really get it above idle. It will only run at all with a combination that while incorrect will deliver a big spark. The engine bogs when I retard the timing and smooths when I advance it so the timing is where it should be.

I got around to "bench" testing the electronic distributor again. It was a longer test than normal and I was crueler than normal. It works fine with the GT40 and works amazingly with the electronic coil. I did it with a rotor, cap, coil lead, spark plug lead and spark plug. So it was a partial simulation of a normal system. The spark was powerful with the plug earthed normally. Holding the plug away from the dist body it can still arc about 1". Alternately it can still give me a zap through a leather glove holding the lead 6" away from the plug. It was also strong enough to make a burning smell as one of the other cap plug holes arced out over to a stray rubber hose, travel along that, through a plastic bag to the vehicle body underneath. Damn, that's a good spark. At no point have I ever seen it have firing issues.

On remote starting I do need something like that. An ignition switch and key unless lifted from another make of vehicle would be an expensive exercise. A starter button on the other hand may be an option. Because I really do need to be able to crank it to track this down. If I can escape today I'm shifting my gauge from the vac line back to the second fuel regulator outlet to see if it has pressure and in the right amount.

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:27 pm

I was asked by Tweety in another post about the fuel pressure put out by a standard subaru fuel pump.

from research I found that a Hitachi only needs 1.3 -2 PSI of pressure which is what the standard subaru fuel pump puts out.

if your fuel pump is pushing more than this then I would say it is bleeding past the needle and seat and probably pushing the waste fuel into you engine

TOONGA

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:42 am

The Hitachi is crap so I pulled it out ages ago. It's got a Holley Economaster on there (Weber DFEV more or less). And I have the Holley regulator dialed down as far as it will go.

I wish I was using a stock Subie pump. I have one and it used to be my pump in the beetle then ended up in the camper, but after I got stranded after it was seemingly shorting out I've had a ripco knockoff facet. To be honest I found myself wondering if I wired the subie pump backwards at some point during maintenance and it was intermittently shorting to the body but It may not have been. I still have the pump and it operated when I put some power through it recently but... yeah I don't trust it.

If I didn't mention it I got the "backwards" Weber to fit with a big aluminium spacer, longer studs and a linkage lifted of a Nikki or something fitted upside down. Works fine and I guess in theory it should have like 0.000000000000000000000001 extra Nm torque.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:39 pm

Well, it seems to run alright now. Not entirely sure what I did to cause that. Fuel pressure is a steady 2PSI. In maybe 20 minutes of idling I heard it miss once which is really pretty amazing considering. It has its power back, which is good.
The wiring is a horrific mess and the coil is sitting on one of the heads. I need to get some kind of blade bus connector to neaten that up, and I have a bracket which will go nicely on the standard coil bolt holes and fits an electronic ignition coil.

What I did today was this. I looked at the fuel pressure. It was fine.

I bench tested the electronic distributor with the electronic coil. It was good.

Swapped distributors and coils, attached the wiring via a couple of leads with blade connectors (usually I just plug straight in to the coil) and started it.

Tried it again this afternoon. It started fine again. I'll try it again tomorrow too.

now for the fun bit. These distributors have a small drain / bleed hole at the bottom. I noticed some dark oil on the engine case which happened to be under the hole in the mechanical distributor. When I removed it and had a look the hole was covered in this awful oil... which happened to be the same colour as the lithium grease I used on the points rubbing block. Also the points' contacts were now sitting askew and possibly heat discoloured. Glad that distributor is gone.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:47 pm

Tried again today. Started first go. On the old distributor the insulation on the points pivot pin had melted. That's why it was sitting crooked. They were brand new too!

Do the electronic distributors need a condenser? I just want to be sure that I'm not leaving out something vitally important on the electronic setup. When I pulled it from what was left of the vehicle at the wreckers the wires had been cut and a lot was missing everywhere so I have no idea.

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:57 pm

Ive never had a condenser on an electronic dizzy in a brumby.

Mine only ever had 2 wires on it and they both went to the coil

TOONGA

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:41 pm

Condensors go with points, too high and they burn on one side, too low rating burns the other side of the points. Get it right and points last longer.

No, use it as a key ring fob or something while using electronic dizzy

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:41 am

steptoe wrote:Condensors go with points, too high and they burn on one side, too low rating burns the other side of the points. Get it right and points last longer.

No, use it as a key ring fob or something while using electronic dizzy

Makes sense. But melted points pivot insulator and distributor cap is bad news all round. Glad I'm not doing anything wrong with the electronic. I just wanted to be safe.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:40 pm

Say.. You know that bit of pressed plate steel which has the prongs which go up parallel to the "ratchet wheel" trigger? that thing directly under it wouldn't happen to be a magnet would it? that thing which has split into a few pieces with one piece that seems to move around, sometimes touching its friends, sometimes not?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:00 pm

think you have found a cause of a few of these pages !

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:23 pm

steptoe wrote:think you have found a cause of a few of these pages !

Yeah. Me too. I had another look and it's really bad. Cracked into multiple pieces and a couple of small bits utterly pulverised. So... Where can I find a magnet?

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:51 pm

So just for the sake of it I glued the magnet back together the best I could and filled the missing bits more or less with a JB Weld knockoff. The magnetic pickup tool when I wave it around seems to say that the field is more or less right. I tried it and nothing happened. I had the prongs gapped right but looks like I messed up their alignment. Fixed that up.It bench tested perfectly. Installed it and guess what. IT DIDN'T BLOODY WORK!

Pulled it out and bench tested it for ages. No problem. Put it back in and it worked. This is just too strange for me. Either the module has an intermittent fault different to the ones I read about, or it's the buggered magnet. But it's a contiguous piece now so it should either work every time or not at all. I've well and truly ruled out external influences like earthing, power feed issues and bad coil. It has to be either the magnet or the module. I really hate distributors.

Nubaru · Post by **Nubaru** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:21 am

Well, so much for a post on an EDIS conversion !