Full Alloy radiator for EJ L series

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:26 am

Are you sure the rest of your cooling system is up to scratch? Could the impeller of you water pump be worn and not pumping like it should, or maybe your thermostat is partially stuck?

I would have thought a dual core radiator, even if it is copper would be better at cooling than the single core aluminium one that the EJ22 has in the Liberty.

2 fans should be sufficient.

This is the WRX 32mm radiator in my RX

All I had to do was modify the lower support panel to make it fit

rtcb65 · Post by **rtcb65** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:29 am

guyph_01 wrote:The car has two fans on each side of the three cores blowing in the right direction. Total of 4 fans...

4 fans , wow , hope all have the same turn speed. If ones on inside turn slower than ones on outside you will get a stale mate between them. So a slow air flow through the core. Which will cause the core to heat up.

rtcb65 · Post by **rtcb65** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:33 am

El_Freddo wrote:Have a look at a factory setup of thermo fans:

^ the radiator shrouds cover all the face of the radiator as much as possible - this is what you need to do. Or the vent(s) in the bonnet to help make it easier for the heated air to move from in the engine bay.

Air, like water, will move to the place that's easiest - where there's the least amount of pressure.

This is an aftermarket setup that sorts out the issue to make the most of the aftermarket thermos, it is also the reason why the largest diametre thermo fan should be used in this application:

Cheers

Bennie

Plus 1 for bennie's idea. They make the fans pull the air through all of the core, not just the area the fans are near. More core being sucked through , means more cooling happening. The shroud Has more use than just stopping your fingers from getting chopped if the fans start.

Post by **TOONGA** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:34 am

Guy can you take a picture Like Tom did, of the space you have between your engine and radiator. As well the fan setup you have.

That will give us a better indication of whats going on.

TOONGA

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:29 pm

yeah i'll do that, But wow this thread has got me so much more info than the last time i asked about this...

These a pic on on the first post in the other thread. Pic show's three fans, it got a fourth one now...

showthread.php?t=20393

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:27 pm

guyph_01 wrote:Its got no shrouds, The using both the factory one that says 1/4, and an after market one but i've put it on the bottom hose so i know when my thermostat opens. Fans in summer start at 180F (82 deg) and cut at 160F(71 deg) on it. When it gets hot it slowly climbs and doesn't seem to stop or come down. Max i went was to 210F (98 deg). I'm maybe over stressing but i don't want to have Paul replace another Head gasket on it....

98deg is still quiet cool. Radiator caps are fitted to increase the boiling point of water/coolant. Engines run more efficently when they are hot. Running too cool will make the engine run too rich and fuel economy will be sh*t.

IMO I wouldn't have the probe in the bottom hose but I see why you want it. I prefer to know the temp coming out of the engine more so.

As long as the fans cycle in and out (on and off) then the radiator is doing it's job. Your fans my not be but without knowing the cfm rating it's hard to say.

I too don't want to do another gasket

guyph_01 wrote:How does the shroud thing work?

By drawing the air from the total area of the shroud and allowing the heat to escape from a larger area of the radiator.

guyph_01 wrote:So basically get a big sheet of alu, cut two holes in it and mount it to the rad?

Little more to it than that but that's the basic concept. Always best to use the largest fan size that will fit the height of the radiator, thus making sure you are not left with any 'hot spot' over the cores tubes.

rtcb65 wrote:4 fans , wow , hope all have the same turn speed. If ones on inside turn slower than ones on outside you will get a stale mate between them. So a slow air flow through the core. Which will cause the core to heat up.

Exactly what I was thinking there Rick.

guyph_01 wrote:yeah i'll do that, But wow this thread has got me so much more info than the last time i asked about this...

I hope so.

I was also thinking about what Bennie mentioned about under bonnet heat. An old friend had a EJ20T in his L and remembered he used to raise the back of the bonnet (spacers under the bonnet hinge) to allow the heat to escape. He used to do lots of serious offroading.

nncoolg · Post by **nncoolg** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:12 am

Gannon, when you say '32mm core' you're measuring the sidebands arent you, not the core?
Ive never seen a 32mm OE WRX core, the one in the wife's MY99 is a 16mm core, like most of the other subies.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:22 am

Sorry, my mistake, its a 25mm core. Early WRX and RS Liberty had a 25mm core.
Thicker than the non turbo Liberty's 16mm core and 33mm taller too.

I guess they figured that thicker cores were overkill.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 pm

I was thinking on the way to work this morning (long drive - shit one too after Elmore) - I wonder how we've modified the under bonnet air pressures by lifting the vehicle and with a big bash plate. I'm guessing that this is still not going to help at low speeds or when you're stuck in traffic...

Something to think about anyway!

Cheers

Bennie

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:41 pm

yeah true, my bash plate does have some holes in it but yeah.

Ok so, The rad shop i had got my rad made up has closed for 6-8months now and i didn't really know any other helpfully specialised shop, Apart from you guys, until a few days ago.

I dropped my girl friends radiator and asked him at the same time about the weird temp spike only when the ac was on. He straight away held the top rad hose and went " But Guy, You've got no pressure!!!" and clueless Guy went, " Ohh Ok"

New cap in and well, we will see what happens in summer.

He explained that the pressure helps to keep the boiling point down.
He also said that the 4 fans could cause air flow problems but recommended to see what happens now that the system is pressurising and then play with the fans if it still over heats...

There you go, Make sure you have a good cap...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:08 pm

guyph_01 wrote:Make sure you have a good cap...

But that's a given!

The other thing it could be is that the radiator is over-cooling which in turn could be over-heating the engine. This occurs due to the EJ having the thermostat on the coolant intake side of the engine rather than the traditional setup on the outlet side.

Cheers

Bennie

Wagonman · Post by **Wagonman** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:23 pm

I read this thread with keen interest cos im having a few overheating troubles too.

My car (Ej22 l series) has two fans (one ecu pulling, one manual switched pushing) and a single core l series ali radiator. Goes great in the sand and up dunes etc around town in 35deg heat all fine but i overheat when im going with the wind on the beach. Also when im fully loaded doing 80-100kmh
sometimes on flat and definitely going uphill. Its running rich and does 12.5-13ltres/100km.. I think it has numerous problems.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:48 pm

Wagonman wrote:Goes great in the sand and up dunes etc around town in 35deg heat all fine but i overheat when im going with the wind on the beach.

Nothing unusual here, it happens and it's a PITA, I've not worked out how to combat this...

Wagonman wrote:Also when im fully loaded doing 80-100kmh

What's the condition of your radiator? How old is it?

Wagonman wrote:Its running rich and does 12.5-13ltres/100km.. I think it has numerous problems.

Checked codes? And what sized tyres are you running, stock 23 inch tyres or 27 inch tyres?

Cheers

Bennie

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:37 am

RSR 555 wrote:Radiator caps are fitted to increase the boiling point of water/coolant.

guyph_01 wrote:" But Guy, You've got no pressure!!!" and clueless Guy went, " Ohh Ok"

New cap in and well, we will see what happens in summer.

He explained that the pressure helps to keep the boiling point down.
He also said that the 4 fans could cause air flow problems but recommended to see what happens now that the system is pressurising and then play with the fans if it still over heats...

There you go, Make sure you have a good cap...

Shit.. wish I'd thought of that

When will you ever listen to me Guy? lol

Speaking of cooling issues.. thanks for fixing Micheal's Liberty

sounds like you had fun.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:43 am

Wagonman wrote:I read this thread with keen interest cos im having a few overheating troubles too.

My car (Ej22 l series) has two fans (one ecu pulling, one manual switched pushing) and a single core l series ali radiator. Goes great in the sand and up dunes etc around town in 35deg heat all fine but i overheat when im going with the wind on the beach. Also when im fully loaded doing 80-100kmh
sometimes on flat and definitely going uphill. Its running rich and does 12.5-13ltres/100km.. I think it has numerous problems.

Running a little warmer when traveling with the wind is quiet normal John but you just need to make sure the fans come on early. Running richer will help keep the engine cooler, lean engines get hotter.

As for 'numerous problems' does the ECU light come on at all?

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Micheal's Liberty..., It came back!!! still overheating. Got my to remove the thermostat a 7pm, burnt my hand and cut out the gust to put the seal back in. He said he will contact you when your back...., HAHAHAHA. Maybe it was a **** thermostat or maybe it a blown head engine.

Anyway for the others, below is the story of Micheal's lib!!!!

OHHHH MY GODDDDD!!!!!

One whole day to change the water pump, Tbelt and front seals. Didn't even get to the rocker covers....

Pulled it all apart, started fine but then the harmonic balancer was stuck really well on there, so i get the pulley puller and crack!!!, it then slowly comes out. It was epoxy putty mixed glued on there. Ok, didn't pay too much attention.
Then while removing the Tbelt, the tensioner bolt was a 17mm bolt. YES, 17 (its normally a 14mm bolt). They had ****ed the thread and put a new coarse threaded bolt in there with like 4washers!!!! Plus on top of that the bolt was too long and the Air-con pulley eat the cover completely.... Anyway,
Replaced the Left cam seal, perfect, moved to the Right, perfect. move to the crank and the pulley/gear doesn't budge..., WHY WHY WHY...., tired everything.
Then after paying some attention and looking closely at it. Its ****ing welded to the key way and crank!!!!! No shit it doesn't budge and i couldn't get it off...
Good thing tho, luckily, the seals didn't have leak signs on it so we left it in there. The two cam seals were still quite soft so hopefully the crank won't leak for a while.
Got the stupid 17mm bolt back in and Tbelt was done. Also because the old cover was completely destroyed buy both the extra long bolt and the failed key-way causing the idler pulley to wobble and eat the cover i gave him a new cover. But the issue of the long 17mm bolt remained. NO WAY i was going to remove the timing again. So drilled a tight fit hole in the cover and the head of the bolt sits flush-ish in it.

Now, Put everything back together, he gave me a thermostat, added coolant and started the car. Alll good running fine. Tired to bleed the thing!!! nothing would work. Raised the front, took it for a drive with the cap on, heater on the lot.... And then suddenly he comes and tells me he 'thinks' he has given me a **** thermostat, that he had two in the car and gave me the wrong one, so we dropped the coolant for the third time, Ohhhh yes third as the first time the by-pass hose decided to leak after we had filled and replaced it before we knew about the ****ed thermostat.

Yep spent the day from 9.30 to 6pm at it...., and i still have to do the rocker covers. I told him next week. I need food. Ohhhh, and it has been raining all day, getting half wet walking to and from the garage for tools etc.
Yep great day:)

LOL