Full Alloy radiator for EJ L series

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guyph_01
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Full Alloy radiator for EJ L series

Post by guyph_01 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:49 pm

Hi Guys,

Well i want to try and replace my radiator in my L series with a full alloy one. At the moment the car doesn't overheat, but in a really hot summer day, from last seasons experience, with the air-con on and giving it some in the sand, the temperature slowly climbs....

So i want to try and pioneer and see if i can get a full aluminum radiator fitted to the car. I will document as i go and hopefully it won't turn out to be a disaster like Extinguisher tyre pump:p


first question, Would anyone know if theres a disadvantage or issue if i can from the normal radiator with the tanks vertical on each sides to one with the tank horizontal on the top and bottom. Will this affect the flow or cooling?

Thx
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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:06 am

Upper and lower end tanks will chew into your air cooling space.

The fella that's building my gearbox is using what from memory is a GC8 dual core ally radiator, cut it down to size and welded the lower end tanks to suit. He loves it for driving around town in summer - EA82 turbo and aircon on and all is sweet, even in stop/crawl traffic.

Downer (for me) about alloy is not being able to fix it in the bush like a copper/brass radiator - but that's just one of my aspects of my build.

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Post by TOONGA » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:15 am

Guy how custom are you talking a complete alloy "racing" radiator or fitting a plastic tanked alloy centre radiator.

I've looked into prices for a custom alloy radiator for jetcar and around $500 was a starting point. modifying an existing alloy radiator from another vehicle would be more cost efective but could mean modfications to your radiator mount and other front panels

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Post by Gannon » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:32 am

For $151 for a full alloy drop in radiator that suits early WRX, this may be a good starting point if you wish to cut say 60mm off the bottom by somebody who is good with a TIG to make it fit without modifying the lower radiator support panel.

ebay.com.au/itm/42mm-2-CORE-High-Per-aluminum-alloy-radiator-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-STI-GC8-92-00

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Also note that this radiator has no filler cap, as its designed for turbo models which have the header tank.

I used the factory version of this radiator in my RX, but I had to modify the lower support panel to make it sit low enough.
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Post by B00sting » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:14 pm

can you fit a bigger copper/brass radiator? Guessing not...

(I"m not a fan of the alloy ones, plenty of bad stories about the cheaper ones being shithouse and even the expensive ones failing, PWR etc).
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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:26 pm

B00sting wrote:can you fit a bigger copper/brass radiator? Guessing not...
You can if you find someone to make one for you. I've got a 3 core all copper/brass radiator in mine from aussie desert coolers in melbs. I now reckon a 2 core is really all I needed, just that back when I got the radiator I wanted something bigger and a two core wasn't an option from the guys that built it back then. Now I've found a fella that'll be the producer of my next radiator - when I need one...

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Post by guyph_01 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:40 pm

At the moment i've got a two core copper one, using subaru coolant and it get hot when i turn the ac on once the car is at operating temp say at the lights even with the fans on. thats why i want alu.
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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:03 pm

I can understand why you're going that way Guyph - I've got those issues once in the sand in the heat, I can't get the heat out from under the bonnet quick enough! At cruise it's fine, in traffic it's ok once the fans are on, but in the slow stuff that's working the engine offroad I reckon the thermo fans are sucking some of the heated air through the areas of the radiator that are not covered by the thermo fans, this air is then sucked back through the radiator in some sort of mini cycle, thus not cooling the radiator effectively.
As soon as you open the bonnet the temperature on the dash almost instantly drops. I'm looking into bonnet vents to help fresh air enter the engine bay through the radiator.

Cheers

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Post by guyph_01 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:23 am

Won't the alloy rad cool better?
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Post by TOONGA » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:12 am

Guy do you have a thermo fan on the condenser of the aircon?

one that blows air through the condenser past the radiator and is activated when the aircon is turned on.

Aluminium is a better exchanger of heat, but is more fragile than a brass/copper radiator.

air vents like the ones the early wrx have, will allow more heat out of the engine bay.

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Post by guyph_01 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:45 am

The car has two fans on each side of the three cores blowing in the right direction. Total of 4 fans...
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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:02 pm

guyph_01 wrote:Won't the alloy rad cool better?
The thermal properties of the alloy radiator are better than that of brass copper, this is why alloy radiators are generally used over brass copper radiators - but in 4wd'n where you need to be able to get your vehicle home if out remote areas when you've got a radiator issue, you can't repair an alloy radiator, where as a brass copper one it is possible to fix in the sticks ;)
TOONGA wrote:air vents like the ones the early wrx have, will allow more heat out of the engine bay.
I'm looking for something a bit different but yes, that would certainly help.
guyph_01 wrote:The car has two fans on each side of the three cores blowing in the right direction. Total of 4 fans...
I'm sure it's still possible to create mini cycles through the radiator if your thermo fans don't have shrouds that cover the entire surface of the radiator, this will only occur at a stand still or slow speeds. I hope that makes sense.

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Post by guyph_01 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:23 pm

El_Freddo wrote: I'm sure it's still possible to create mini cycles through the radiator if your thermo fans don't have shrouds that cover the entire surface of the radiator, this will only occur at a stand still or slow speeds. I hope that makes sense.

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:38 pm

Have a look at a factory setup of thermo fans:

Image

^ the radiator shrouds cover all the face of the radiator as much as possible - this is what you need to do. Or the vent(s) in the bonnet to help make it easier for the heated air to move from in the engine bay.

Air, like water, will move to the place that's easiest - where there's the least amount of pressure.

This is an aftermarket setup that sorts out the issue to make the most of the aftermarket thermos, it is also the reason why the largest diametre thermo fan should be used in this application:

Image

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Post by RSR 555 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:19 am

Too many fans or incorrectly placed fans can also cause bad air flow, in turn cause the engine to get warm when driving in sandy/boggy conditions. Also, what gauge are you using? is it the factory one on the dash or a fully aftermarket one with it's own sender unit (thermocouple) in the top radiator hose.

I also believe what Bennie is saying to be a factor. You really do need good shrouds.
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Post by guyph_01 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:15 am

Its got no shrouds, The using both the factory one that says 1/4, and an after market one but i've put it on the bottom hose so i know when my thermostat opens. Fans in summer start at 180F (82 deg) and cut at 160F(71 deg) on it. When it gets hot it slowly climbs and doesn't seem to stop or come down. Max i went was to 210F (98 deg). I'm maybe over stressing but i don't want to have Paul replace another Head gasket on it....

How does the shroud thing work?

So basically get a big sheet of alu, cut two holes in it and mount it to the rad?
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Post by TOONGA » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:06 am

RSR 555 wrote:Too many fans or incorrectly placed fans can also cause bad air flow, in turn cause the engine to get warm when driving in sandy/boggy conditions. Also, what gauge are you using? is it the factory one on the dash or a fully aftermarket one with it's own sender unit (thermocouple) in the top radiator hose.

I also believe what Bennie is saying to be a factor. You really do need good shrouds.
+1

I will add that you may have a too efficient air extraction system and the air isn't getting a chance to remove the heat from the radiators.

As for shrouds have a look at a MY thermo fan and you will see an example of a shroud. a flat sheet of aluminium will block the area of the radiator where there isnt an opening for the fan the shrouds need to be angled to the opening of the fan.

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Post by guyph_01 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:17 pm

TOONGA wrote: a flat sheet of aluminium will block the area of the radiator where there isnt an opening for the fan the shrouds need to be angled to the opening of the fan.

TOONGA
My issue is space....
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Post by TOONGA » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:34 pm

with the alloy radiator Bennie posted, the sheet is flat but there is at least a 10 mm gap between the radiator and the fans.

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the box that this would be enough to create the draw through effect you need
but it would need to be sealed well on the radiator

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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:31 pm

guyph_01 wrote:Fans in summer start at 180F (82 deg) and cut at 160F(71 deg) on it. When it gets hot it slowly climbs and doesn't seem to stop or come down. Max i went was to 210F (98 deg). I'm maybe over stressing but i don't want to have Paul replace another Head gasket on it....
I had an aftermarket temp gauge plumbed into the engine to heater core pipe - I've had Ruby Scoo up to 115*C degrees, +30*C ambient temp, 4000rpm low first in the slow stuff (sand), all thermo's on, couldn't stop until I was in a "safe place". 2 minutes after I pulled over and popped the bonnet the temp had dropped back to normal operating temp. This is why I reckon vents are going to be the way to go. Next offroading trip in summer I'm thinking of testing this out with a second bonnet and some strategically placed holes to see if there's any difference in engine temps.

So this EJ has been boiled, frozen and boiled again. I may jinx myself here, but
guyph_01 wrote:My issue is space....
Half the fun right?

Cheers

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