EA81 with SPFI manifold to carbie advice

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:47 am

ok. Time has come to express my frustration. The SPFI unit is for sale.

The unit needs enthusiasm and electronic knowledge if which I no longer have.

The unit will be sold without the manifold. Buyer can adapt it to the standard manifold or seek out another from USA.

System comes with many spares eg 2 extra TPS's, injector (works well), temp sensor, engine loom etc etc.

I will also be seeking a weber 32/36 in VGC. I have a EA81 dizzy/coil etc..

If anyone desires this unit and has a good weber 32/36 then the weber and $200 will get you this system.

I will need to make an adapter plate for the weber to the SPFI manifold. see parts for sale ad

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:13 pm

re: weber 32/36, manual choke. believe there are a few types. before I look around what version is best suited. eg spanish etc thanks.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:02 pm

It has put up a good fight this spfi system hasn't it ? Been to your dyno guy ?Another efi specialist shop? El-Freddo and Tambox as well as the collective brains of a few forums.

No doubt by now you are sick of it to ya back teeth (if ya got any!)

Did anyone adres the speed sensor theory ?
Note that someone in the USMB has just found a yard full of spfi systems !

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:16 pm

dont doubt there are plenty of SPFI stuff in "junk yards" in NA

so spfi to carb. Cant recall the old set up. I have a master blaster coil. What colour wires from dizzy go to coil? there is a yellow and bl/w wires. should there be a ballast resister? capacitor? I will need a electric fuel pump I guess 2-4 psi? and how do I wire it in with safety concerns..eg cutting out in case of accident?... please advise..

found wire colours yellow -ve B/W +ve.

postscript: will buy a new weber 32 36 on ebay. will order it with jets as per Toonga's size some years ago- idles both 50, mains primary 135 secondary 150. really want a new carbie and finances strained so new one is $298 + $18 postage. new fuel pump 1.5-3.5 psi is $27 free postage.
I would then only need an air filter or if we can afford it, a extension piece to my old cone set up (has foam in it too) and fuel line. my wife prefers we get a genuine weber....is the copy ok? what you reckon guys?

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:13 pm

Positive side of coil gets +12v switched ignition, negative gets pulse signal from distributor
A Datsun 1600 rally car I have been working on has its fuel pump controlled by the oil pressure switch. That way the engine doesnt get fuel till the oil pressure is up, but fuel cuts out as soon as the oil pressure drops. Took a bit to work out what was controlling the fuel pump

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:28 pm

So the earth of the pump goes to the oil pressure wire Gannon. Clever idea.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:02 pm

No not quite.

The oil pressure switch controls a relay for the fuel pump, dont want all the pump current flowing through an oil pressure switch

The oil pressure switch in question actually has 3 terminals, common terminal is to ground, terminal 1 goes to oil pressure light, terminal goes to the 86 terminal the relay, 85 gets +12v from ignition switch

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:20 pm

So I assume if the oil pressure wire (I think its earthed when engine runs) is tapped and ran to a relay so the relay is only turned on when engine is running? pump +ve another connection to relay.
Ignition another connection. thats 3. and the forth?

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:34 pm

so many questions. sorry.

I spotted this carb. Now the SPFI mnifold is 6mm more in diameter than the stock ea81. also the opening under a carbie is much larger.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MORE-POWER-f ... 3efdf209a4

As I need as much torque as possible at low revs wouldnt this carbie be the ducks guts? I know the throats both operate at the same time but you only use the fuel you need dont you?? With much more air intake should it be considered?

see: http://www.underexposed.org/weber.pdf 4th reply by "Sarge" weber expert. says there is a huge torque advantage

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:32 pm

from:

Quote: In the past there have been questions and much miss information put out on the
choice of a 32/36 DGEV carb or the 38 DGAS

1) The Kits utilizing the 32/36 Progressives Weber are designed to provide the market with an economical performance carburetor conversion that while increasing Hp also improves drivability and fuel economy over the stock carburetor. The kits using the 32/36 progressive carburetor is the optimum carburetor for use as a replacement carburetor for a worn out or hard to maintain factory carb.

2) When purchased in kit form, the REDLINE kit with the 38mm DGAS carb will perform on a stock unmodified engine without any problems. This is not going to be an over carburetion situation. It will provide considerably more initial torque and acceleration but the top end performance will not be significantly improved over the 32/36 when used on a stock motor.

3) The 38mm DGAS carb should be the only consideration if the engine is in the future or currently going to have any level of additional engine modification. Such as headers, free flowing exhaust, a cam, or rebuilt engine. Usually these motors will be improved over stock with oversize pistons and towing cam. The 38 will enhance the improvements of any of these items. The 6 cylinder engine applications are particularly enhanced by this application. In-fact on ALL JEEP and LAND CRUSER applications with any upgrades this is a mandatory choice. Otherwise the progressive will require extensive re-calibration to work properly.

4) When using a 32/36 in the above situations will require additional calibration and rejetting to attain the desired performance and standard fuel economy. There is a jet kit available for just this reason. The jetting is required due to the performance enhancements of the additional modifications. Although the 32/36 does outperform the original, to receive the full benefit of your investment the 32/36 will require helpful re-calibration. The 38 DGAS is the optimum choice and has a larger fuel delivery system and the calibration to handle the broader range of improved performance and improves substantially your other product investments.

5) While the 32/36 progressive carb will improve your fuel economy on a stock motor over the OEM carb. The 38 Synchronous carb will not get less fuel economy than the OEM carb.

RECAP

The 32/36 DGV progressive carburetor as used in any REDLINE kit is pre-calibrated and set to run on most normal standard and stock engines and provide a performance and fuel economy improvement. If that engine has been upgraded or improved with other performance items there will be a need to recalibrate or rejet the carburetor in some situations.

The 38 DGAS synchronous carburetor when supplied in kit form from REDLINE is also pre-calibrated for use on stock or slightly modified motors and will not be over carbureted. It also provides the best starting point for engines that are ultimately going to be upgraded with additional performance Items with performance over fuel economy being the ultimate goal.

Both carburetor kits will perform great on Toyota Nissan Honda Mazda Suzuki Mitsubishi BMW Geo Isuzu Subaru Volkswagen and Saab applications as well as many others
If you want a carb kit that is jetted properly for your application I recommend buying only a Redline kit using a genuine Weber carb

Basically in a nutshell
If you have a stock engine and want better gas mileage
Go with a 32/36 kit
If you have a stock or modified (upgraded) engine and want horse power gain
Go with the 38 Outlaw kit
end

bare in mind that the SPFI area inside it is about 20% larger than ea81.

Seems every time I read an article about the 38/38 I read that it give more torque and power at low-mid revs. but like all carbs has to be jetted correctly.

I've got gout so am not walking today so spent the day reading up on webers. Seems to me if I was dealing with a stock eA81 then I'd go with the 32/36, but I will have 20% extra room inside the manifold and good flow exhaust. And possibly a head shave down the track. 38/38 if jetted right is ahead at this point????

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:58 pm

You will need a special oil pressure gauge that is normally open for the fuel pump control but normally closed for oil pressure light. You could use a NC relay to reverse your current oil pressure switch or use something like this, but with a bspt thread
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MARINE-OIL-P ... -FUEL-PUMP

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:34 am

that would be one of those 87, 87a :changeover" relays from duel fuel set ups

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:39 am

I'll consult about this when the time comes. What about the 38/38 Weber. Anyone got a view?

If I had a very stock ea81 with no planned mods I'd go the 32/36. I've had one before and Cam got it. However, it was a little sluggish on take off not helped by 14 hp taken by the VW auto. It needs a better pick up at low revs. Tweety's exhaust is much shorter than original and better flow thru. The SPFI manifold is 20-25% larger and the opening under the carbie larger. I'm aware the intake chambers are restrictive but the breathing must be better and this must make the 38/38 more viable. The pick up would be remarkable I think. Economy? some say its even more economical than the 32/36 esp when cruising. some say its a pig and sucks fuel, some say they have black exhaust fumes and some say there isnt any difference. I think most dont get the jetting right. Some say they bolted it on and never touched it. Personally its a small gamble. I expect a 2-3mpg drop hopefully picked up with the better breathing. I will be getting the heads recoed and shaved in 2-3 years. Decisions decisions.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:18 am

You have done some research haven't you. Found out about many pitfalls.

Gotta make you wonder where are all the go faster bits of the EA81's ending up ?
I know of a twin port that went to the crusher, the owner unaware of their value.

What about the ported and polished heads and the used stuff from the aviation world.

Surely someone has some SUB4 heads, roller rockers, cast alloy rocker covers just sitting about in a plane wreck, sitting about in the widows shed ??

Wonder if they have a used market ?

http://www.autoflight.co.nz/dominator/features.php

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:23 am

The 38/38 is synchronous, where as the 32/34 and 34ADM are progressive so you can in theory drive on the primary barrel / butterfly only.

here is an ebay link to a 38/38 from the USA

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/428-NEW-UNIV ... 1c313b4a60

Main venturi 27

Aux. venturi 4.0

Main jet 145

Emulsion tube f50

Air correction 185

Idle jet 45

Pump jet 70

Pump bleed 30(1)

Needle valve 250

Float level 40/52.5

Jets are the big issue in any carby. I would say if you went with small jets, EG a pair around the 110 -120 mark on the 38/38, it would be economical and still powerful.

The 32/36 should be jetted in the 140 range according to the research I've done and Jeszek on USMB.

If you were to go with the 34AMD I would go with jets in the 120 - 130 range, as it is a bigger carby the CFM is a bit trickier to work with.

TOONGA

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:38 am

Steptoe, I know I've seen alloy rocker covers made in NZ. They are for aircraft and not cheap. I too have seen tragic things, like 25 years ago a heap of Lotus twin cam heads off an Elan/Escort dumped. Terrible.

Thanks Toonga. so I assume you are saying that with the 38/38 you can adjust the butterflies so one opens first- yes? if that is so wouldt the mechanisim jam at full throttle whereby one opens fully and the other cant open fully? re-read your post. disregard last question. your were refering to the progressive.

Thanks for the jets sizes. I'll read that link now. Weber at Braeside in Melbourne have 38/38's for $423. USA postage is ridiculous. Dont save that much and I can get close service.

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:20 pm

Tony, if you want find out details about Webbers and how to set them up, "Webber Carburettors, Pat Braden, HP books774".
I have a copy, you may be able to downlaod it these days, if not, contact me.
I've done a lot with 45 DCOE's but thats about it, the book expains the rest.

Tweety · Post by **Tweety** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:19 am

Thanks Greg, will look for it.

Found this site (aircraft) that shows clearly a ea82 manifold being enlarged with adapter plate that I've previously described with the angle so the carbie base is horizontal. http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/DCP02154.JPG

This was what I was after. I'll need to source a aluminium block 5"x4"x1.5". not easy. Get it milled to the right angle and the throat holes drilled by the engineer. and can do the rest myself. the four holes to the manifold will be easy. the other four hold carbir adapt will need to be tapped with studs pointing up so the carbie can bolt to it.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:04 pm

without the 'net you'd almost think you were alone on this one.
Nice find.
Then again, without the 'net we probably wouldn't get into as much trouble as some of us do

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 pm

Interesting pic of the EA manifold there, I wonder what they did with the coolant passage that runs to the base of the carbie?