Duel Range _&_ TURBO..? Can it be done..?

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:51 pm

Im planing a WRX Engine transplant for my L-Touring Wagon in a few months and I dearly want to keep my 'Duel Range' Gearbox options. Can it be done, safely, so that I wont be detonating gearboxes.....? I was thinking of possibly installing a 'rev limiter', so that when the engine senses Low Range engaged, it limits revs to 2000 rpm or whatever....

Or am I dreaming...??

hehe

If it IS possible....what gearboxes do you boys recommend...???
Or any to avoid...?

I welcome any feedback...

Regards

Karen

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:00 pm

Theres a few options...

1 - AWD EJ Dual range gearbox (from an early Liberty or Outback). These aren't designed for the turbo motors but will still hold up very well because they are still designed for an EJ motor. The drawback is the low range isn't very low - it's only 1.1 This is what I run behind my EJ20turbo and while the low range isn't very low it's still very useful to have.
You need to have the pressure plate custom modified to increase it's clamping power to suit the power of the motor.
Also note that you will have to custom make a gearbox crossmember using some EA crossmember components and some EJ ones.
Also you will need a custom shortened tailshaft.
Also you will need custom shortened shifter linkages.

2 - EA L series dual range gearbox. These are the best offroading gearbox but they are weaker and will detonate after a while behind an EJ20turbo. Also they are only front wheel drive on the road which is crazy to control with that much power. This will also need a custom built pressure plate and a custom made adaptor plate to get the bolt pattern to match the EJ motor.

3 - AWD EA L series gearbox. As above except it is AWD when driving on the road. Very rare gearbox indeed.

4 - AUTOMATIC.

If you definitely want manual then I'd say go with option 1 - the low isnt great but the gearbox should last a while. Also it is by FAR the superior gearbox for on-road applications (be honest...this is where the car will be 90% of the time).

**Edit - you wouldn't want a rev limiter thing....you really need to be able to play around with your engine's full range of revs and power while negotiating things offroad.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:12 pm

Thanks Andrew

Good advice indeed...cheers mate!

Yeah, I did contemplate the Auto option, but being the control freak that I am, I couldn't go through with it. hehe

I think the AWD Liberty Box sounds like a goer.....
Andrew, from what year to what is the Lib box that I will need....???

Out of curiosity....what ratio is the L's Low Range, compared to the AWD Liberty unit...?? I must admit....the low range on my 'L' really does perform beautifully! I will miss it dearly....

Karen

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:12 pm

If you do decide to go with the EJ AWD dual range gearbox from a outback/forester, Scorpion are selling reduction gears to bring low range down to 1.58:1 (same as an L series dual range box).

At $1,600 just for parts, it's not cheap. http://scorpionsubaru.com/low.htm

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:21 pm

Thanks Jack, Ive made a note of that....your not wrong about being expensive....! Ouch...

I would love to get back to that L-Ratio though....HHmmmmmm

....If you altered the AWB EJ Box to the Scorpion L-Ratio....wouldn't that make it just as vulnerable to detonation as the L....?? Or are they stronger parts...???

Karen

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:22 pm

Yes and splitting a gearbox to install them is no easy task (and no cheap one to pay for a pro to do it).
I might do that one day.

Any year will do really, they are all basically the same.
Mine is a 1999 from an Outback - strangely mine is fairly weird in the fact that the clutch is operated by hydraulics. Most are operated by cable which is perfect for an L series.

Milotin might still have the gearbox from the Lib he is wrecking - check in the forsale section.

btw I'm kindof liking the extreme colour coding on your car - what area in Perth are you from??

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:33 pm

L-Raiser wrote:Out of curiosity....what ratio is the L's Low Range, compared to the AWD Liberty unit...?? I must admit....the low range on my 'L' really does perform beautifully! I will miss it dearly....

EJ Liberty/Forester Box : 1.196:1
L Series Turbo (AWD and Part Time) box low range : 1.196:1
L Series standard box low range : 1.592:1

I found an L Series Turbo "AWD" (Full Time 4WD) box and got a standard 1.592:1 gear ratio put into it. The low is a fair improvement

For a WRX Motor - I would go for Jack's idea - even if it does cost a fair bit more. You get best of both worlds with that.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:36 pm

Thanks, Im kinda partial to it too

...It is a Ford XR6/8 Colour....'Rapid Fire Yellow'

I wanted my L to 1. Look younger & refreshed and 2. Stand out as unique
...I think Ive accomplished that...

But it is only Subaru owners who turn their heads....<smile>
Joe Blow Citizen would know the difference....

Im yet to to do engine, lift kit, mags and tinted windows...so tiz early days yet.

...I live bout 20km east of Perth

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:39 pm

I thought i heard you can but L series low range gears into LIberty/Outbox? But i could be wrong.

Fang · Post by **Fang** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:39 pm

The other thing you have to remember if you DO go an EJ box (and consequently a new rear diff) - then your overall gear ratio will change. Take off will improve and you will cruise at a slightly higher RPM. This might be just as good for you instead of having the lower "low range"?

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:44 pm

Alot of the early Lib EJ boxes are 3.9 ratio (Edit - **I think) which is the same as alot of L series - although L raiser you probably have 3.7 being a Touring Wagon.

Mine is a 4.111....cruising RPM is still similar to what it used to be with the 3.7 final drive because it is compensated for by different actual gearing, ie the EJ 5th gear is a fair bit different to the 5th gear in the L series box.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:04 pm

....wow....so many options...goodness hehe It is so easy to get the head too full of options that it starts to cloud decisions....lol

So what overall 'packages' have been proven successful...??
Im trying to work out what would be the ideal G/Box, G/Box ratio and Diff ratio I should aim for....

...Im trying to build this L to focus primarily for Off Road Performance....ie low down grunt and torque and comfortable driveability...

As I have my 2002 Bug Eye WRX for my onroad expression....

I might TRY the EJ Lib/Forrester Box, see how it performs, and if Im not satisfied then I will save up for the Scorpion ratio upgrade to 1.59:1.

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:23 pm

thats a good move.

and i DO reccomend reduction gears...i dont have a dual range in my lib, and most of the time its not really needed..but on steep hills and rocky surfaces it makes it VERY hard to go slowly and clutching the whole way is not good..i would kill for a dual range box..and i shall be doing this conversion in the VERY near future as well

cheers
dave

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:51 pm

Okay if it's primarily for offroad then I'd say keep your existing L series driveline. This is the best option for offroad performance...
- Lowest low range
- Locked centre diff
- Good option to get a welded rear diff (pop one axel out for easy on-road driving)

To get it to work with the EJ engine you will need...
- Upgraded pressure plate and clutch (be prepared to build up your left leg muscles)
- Adaptor plate to fit the gearbox to the engine

The above is very easy to organise in comparison to the custom crossmembers and shortened tailshaft and changing rear diff ratio you need when using an EJ gearbox.

I would source an extra gearbox as a spare because you will break your one eventually. BUT...if you treat them right they can last a long time.
A friend of mine has an EJ20turbo running on one of these. After well over 2 years of reasonably hard punishment it is still working perfectly although all the gears whine pretty badly.
At the end of the day they are still easy to source, cheap to buy and (in an L series wagon) quite quick and easy to swap out.

L-Raiser · Post by **L-Raiser** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:38 pm

Does anyone know any members who are currently running a Turbo engine with a Scorpion Upgraded Low range box 1.59:1...???

legacytt · Post by **legacytt** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:32 pm

I have the cheaper option, Lib AWD with L series gearset swapped into it giving the best of both worlds. Parts are cheap, but does require some modification of the shifter fork for the dual range gears. Mine is running behind and RS Turbo motor, has an upgraded clutch and works very well. I was towing a tandem trailer full of dirt and rocks behind it yesterday and it would happily wheelspin on gravel on takeoff till the trailer started to move.

Overall gearing suits the larger tyres,(28's) at highway speeds engine is doing around 2800 at 110, similar to the Turbo gearing with normal tyres.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:09 pm

I've got an ea awd box behind a rs turbo engine, has been there for over a year now. As long as you don't drop the clutch it'll be fine. But getting a good clutch would be a good idea, I've just got a standard deikin? one which only just holds on.

vladrulli · Post by **vladrulli** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:38 am

I'm running an AWD dual-range with 3.9 final ratio with my ej20g... seems to hold in fine and was an easy drop-in mod after I fried my A/T box... only had to shorten the driveshaft a bit and make a custom cross-member...

the clutch seems to hold but an aftermakert setup would probably be better...

I find the high to be too low... runs at aroudn 3000 rpm at 100km/h cruizing... a bit too high for my taste...

the low isn't much lower... is enough for me as I don't do any serious offroading and comes in handy in traffic jams...

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:07 am

Mine runs at around 2500 but it seriously lacks torque. When it used to run at 3000 I never even had to put my foot down going up big hills. Most of the time I don't even bother with 5th now.

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:16 am

Some of the EJ boxes came standard with the L low range, but I think these are few & far between.
If you run an EJ box, just fit wheels & tyres that are the same size as the car they're from.
eg, my parent's 93 Lib has 185/70R14s which is a pretty good size upgrade IMO for an offroad L. They'll actually still fit under the guard unlifted, but that won't be a problem for you.
So not only do you get bigger tyres, but an accurate speedo.
The first box I had possessed Lib gears & centre diff, with L low range & L bellhousing.
If you can get the parts, Lib gearset, L low range, L AWD lockable centre diff would be the best.