wrx brumby

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:00 pm

is it possible to put a wrx motor (not fussy on series yet) into a brumby but keep it fwd instead of converting it to awd?

cheers

brad

BaronVonChickenPants · Post by **BaronVonChickenPants** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:12 pm

Possible = Yes

Practical = No

With that much power in such a light, fwd only car, traction would be near impossible.

I'm sure theres others here that can vouch for being able to smoke 27 inch tyres with a NA EJ20 and the stock gear box...Ben? Nathan? others?

Jordan.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:51 pm

Totally. If you're going to do an EJ conversion buy a front cut and use that gearbox and rear diff.

Soon as my L series is back on the road I'll post some pics of some big 'ol smokey burnouts as proof.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:58 pm

I can lay strips quite easily in my wagon, and that's only got a paltry EA82 and 27's.

Having felt what a standard EJ20G can do, I'd definitely say it has too much power for FWD. I was even able to drop 4 skidmarks at times! Several WA board members can vouch for this!

Remember: Torque steer sucks. There is no good reason to go FWD in an EJ20T powered Subaru.

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:44 pm

hmmm well how much extra work is it to convert it to awd? bearing in mind that im only 16. and it the weight to power ratio is really what makes it impractical to have it as fwd i could always lower the boost and i plan to have about another 100-200kgs of stereo in the arse end of the ute (2xkicker 15inch L7 subs in two ported boxes

)

edit: when u convert it to awd u say that you need the rear diff, yes? well that wouldnt be included in the front cut would it? also how much would a front cut and everything else i would need cost? i just need a rough idea

cheers

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:34 pm

Are you absolutely sure your Brumby is a 2WD? I've never seen anything but 4WD Brumbys.

To convert from 2WD to 4WD you need all the rear suspension from a 4wd, the fuel tank, a 4wd gearbox (in your case a matching AWD box), tailshaft, diff and axles. You also need the diff hanger bar and brackets.

I did this to my Leone Coupe (think Brumby but in a two door coupe - red one in my sig pic) and it took me about a day. I also fitted a WRX motor - and that took me significantly longer.

I think you need to take a decent look into whats involved in fitting the EJ20 turbo motor. You need to reshape the chassis rails to clear the cam covers, modify the engine crossmember to accept the new mounts and clear the up-pipe for the turbo, lower the engine crossmember to fit the bonnet, wire the whole thing up, build a custom exhaust, wedge a big custom radiator in there and all that is just the basics for fitting the motor to begin with. Then if you go the sensible option of selecting the turbo AWD gearbox you'll also need to mount the clutch master cylinder, build a custom gearbox crossmember, modify linkages and get a tailshaft custom made.

What I'm trying to say is that the WRX motor is far from a bolt-in, it requires extensive modifications to make it fit, some of which alter the structural integrity of the car and if done wrong can make it very lethal. And all of this stands whether you're running 2psi or 18psi.

EDIT: Forgot to add the bit on cost. It varies greatly on many factors, my front cut cost $2800, the matching viscous LSD cost $500, then the conversion on top of that cost about $4000. I also upgraded the brakes and suspension (~$1200), bought rims ($500), added some ricey bits to the interior (~$500) and at about this point I stopped counting. Estimating nearly $20,000 at the moment, and I haven't even got to panel & paint! Mind you I've now upgraded stuff quite a bit - got a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, aftermarket ECU and I'm including maintenance costs.

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:43 pm

well, didnt that just dash my hopes and dreams. well the other alternative is chuck a turbo on the brumby. i may be looking at purchasing an 83 model - get this, under 75000kms on it!!! - the subs in the back will be i major downside to power so is it possible (and prefferably safe) to turbo one?? is that easier than wrx conversion.

the only real other alternative is to pay someone to do the engine swap. from what you sed tim i could probly do the gearbox conversion myself and get a local performance shop to swap the engine over. does this sound like a better plan, because then it has a warranty

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:52 pm

another factor i forget to think about is with the wrx engine would it need power steering? i wouldnt have thought so as it would still be a very light car but what are your opinions?

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:32 am

I don't have power steering in my coupe and it is running 205/65R15's. I don't think the weight of the engine impacts much on the steering as at times when sillyness is required I've whacked the 155R13's on. The steering is quite heavy though and the small wheel doesn't help much at all. But then again I don't have much trouble turning it about.

Putting a turbo on an EA81 carby model is next to impossible IMHO. Well, nothing is impossible but I'd argue its cheaper to fit a WRX engine.

I'm going to be playing with some 'little' EJ engines in the new year, an EJ18 and hopefully an EJ16 as well. Supercharging one of these and fitting it to an MY (the model group your Brumby falls under) would be the simplest way to get some semi-serious verve. My plan is to supercharge one of these, I have been informed of a good SC14 Aisin blower going on the cheap at the moment.

Fitting the turbo requires crossmember modification, as you need to get the exhaust up to the turbo. The factory turbo location really is the best spot on the motor for it, it sits next to the brake booster but the exhaust and inlet tracts are about the shortest possible compromise. Finding and tuning a blow-through carby or building a pressure box are activites I'd deem a waste of time on an EA81. The strong point of the EA81 is that it goes forever on virtually no fuel. Trying to get it to be a true performance motor is futile, it was never meant to be one. That said, you can make them go a lot better than factory with some simple performance mods
Finding an EA81T would also be an option if you have a lot of patience, there aren't many of these around but the conversion would have to be one of the simpler options.

Anyway, I hope I've given you some food for thought. Any more questions feel free to ask, I've answered these for the forums benefit mainly, as since the crash we have lost a lot of info on these topics.

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:30 pm

tim, did you do the engine swap your self or did you pay someone to do it for you? if so would you reccomend doing it myself or paying someone to do the swap for me?

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:33 pm

There's no way you're ever going to be able to insure an EJ20 Brumby either.

Your best option: Work that little EA81. Weber, cam, big fat exhaust . . . the EA81 is my fave Subaru donk, they are the best made by far and just go forever. You should be able to get about a hundred horsepower out of it without tooooo much effort.

smoov · Post by **smoov** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:41 pm

save your money and buy this instead....

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:50 pm

but its really hard to buy parts for the brumbies and well the convertion is a very uncommon thing and it would go like a really fast thing. its so tempting.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:41 pm

You'd be hard pressed to build that car for that price.

I think you'll find you might be on the wrong track about getting parts for Brumbys - everything from an MY Series car fits. 4WD MY Wagon = <$500.

Actually the conversion is becoming more and more popular, and yeah while it does go hard it's not quite like putting a 350 Chev into an HQ . . . It's a HELL of a big job the first time.

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:32 pm

spudley wrote:tim, did you do the engine swap your self or did you pay someone to do it for you? if so would you reccomend doing it myself or paying someone to do the swap for me?

LOL! I definitely did it myself! In hindsight though, I must say I'd rather have paid someone to do it.

There is a definite risk in doing this though, there are many shortcuts that can be done to save time & money at the expense of the finished product. Only pay someone to do it if they've done them before and if you can have a good look at their work.

The conversion is more common than you think, just off the top of my head I can think of 6 MY's in Perth that are running EJ20T's, and 4 L series! About to be 5

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:58 pm

If you are looking for a good, cheap and simple conversion, go for the good 'ole WRX into RX-turbo conversion. Even I managed to do that one!! (5 years ago I didn't even know what brand of car was what, let alone how they work!) So far it's cost me $4000 for car, $2400 for 1993 GT Legacy import 1/2 cut, and about $1300 in other stuff ($500 of which I realise now I could have avoided). Granted, I did use the original RX AWD box which has made things much simpler. (for now...)

tim_81coupe · Post by **tim_81coupe** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:24 pm

How is your clutch holding up PeeJay? I take it you don't thrash it to within an inch of its life or you'd have hit trouble already...

The RX is by far the easiest L series to convert, very little mechanical knowledge needed, just wiring.

PeeJay · Post by **PeeJay** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:31 pm

Clutch is going fine so far, but I have to sort a few error codes and get the boost above 5psi, but even still it goes significantly faster than the old EA82T! My plan is to eventually change the box to a dual range liberty with a low lowrange.

spudley · Post by **spudley** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:01 pm

well the convertion is pretty uncommon in my area, i live in townsville in north queensland. i have just thought of another option though (haha thats like the forth time LOL) see i work at supercheap (please, no criticism) but we have a shitload of of engines that we can order in and anyway i get a 25% discount of anythin i order in so im gonna ask some of the fellas at work 2morro which is the biggest one i could order in that would fit in a brumby and then im gonna see how much its gonna cost. also i will see if we can order in transmissions then i'll go from there.

what do yous think? is this easier or should i stick with the wrx convertion?

cheers.

MUDRAT · Post by **MUDRAT** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:06 pm

Biggest engine you can fit into a Brumby? EJ22. I can get you one for about a grand. You can't fit an EJ20 turbo into a Brumby without cutting and welding.

Biggest engine you can fit into a Brumby without needing an engineer's report: Normally Aspirated EJ20 SOHC. Biggest engine you can BOLT IN to a Brumby?

EA81