Performance tyres for Outback ?

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:11 pm

ORX-18 wrote:... get a FULL 4 WHEEL alignment, these are about 140 bucks and can do wonders for a cars handling.
Hmm... I went to the nearest Bridgstone tyre shop, and asked for a "full 4 wheel alignment". They told me it would cost $59. I asked: "What about the one for approximately $140 ?" They told me there ain't such thing, but they could take my $140 if I insist".

I was away on my leave. Now I am driving the car quieter, without pushing it around the corners and roundabouts. So that the tyre is OK for me. There is a tirerack article comparing BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour, Dunlop Signature CS and Kumho Road Venture APT KL51. It says: "The Long Trail T/A Tour was somewhat more responsive than the Kumho tire, but ended in greater understeer that limited its cornering speed".

This was my observation, too. The BFG tyre is competent at precision of steering, however I experienced more cornering understeering than I wanted. I think the unusual and excessive siping of shoulder blocks is responsible for that. Just as I said, I am not pushing the tyre now. But my new tyres (still 2 years away !) will be Michelin Latitude Tour HP or Toyo Open Country H/T, or some other "H" speed-rated tyre. A higher speed rating, besides temeparture endurance, also means that the sidewall is stiffer.

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:23 pm

What makes a tyre good for driving on gravel ?

My "off-road" driving consists mostly of driving on country roads with lose gravel on it. The surface is slippery when I am braking or turning, so that I have to keep the speed down.

I imagine a Mud-Terrain would make a good gravel tyre, because it has chunky thread. The gravel fits between the lugs; the lugs bite into the road. Also, I imagine the lugs should have generous siping on them, so that to grip onto dusty road surface under the gravel.

Also, the thread should be made of a soft rubber, so that the tyre would "hug" the larger gravel stones and still keep in contact with the road.

Am I correct ?

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Post by valerian » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:01 pm

valerian wrote:What makes a tyre good for driving on gravel ?
Nobody answered my question, so that I try to answer at a best of my abilities :).

Here is a BF Goodrich Rally tyre, designed specifically for rally on gravel. One could see the tread has lots of grooves which I think are supposed to "hug" the gravel particles and do not let them rotate, thus do not allow the "ball bearing" effect.


http://secure.subesports.com/products/c ... rodID/1980

Part Number: BFG-60526
Brand: BF Goodrich Rally
Model: 195/70-15 GZS5R

Description:
BF Goodrich 15" standard gravel specification tire for 4-wheel drive Group A and Open class rally cars. Directional tire with curved radius pattern producing maximum ground force under rotation. All-around performance on hard packed, loose, and sandy surfaces. Right side hard compound.

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:37 am

A quick update. After about 5 months and 5k km, the ride improved, i.e. it became firmer. At the same time, the tyre pressure went down from 32-33 psi to 30.5 psi and is now close to the recommended by manufacturer (29/28 psi F/R). I presume it take this long for the tyres to cure and became firmer. The ride is more pleasant, although I had a number of drives in passenger cars, and they are more responsive when turning.

The othet thought which occured to me is that one should not trust the reviews and rankings from American website. Americans value the wear and comfort above of all, and do not care much about handling. As for me, I care more about handling and lateral grip, and do not mind much if the tyre wears ot quickly and provides a bit hard ride. In fact, Europeans value performance over comfort, so that I am finding the reviews on the English and German websites which I am happier with.

I've decided when my tyres finish off in a couple of years, I will get any highway-terrain tyre with a speed rating of H or above. My criterion will be the price -- the cheaper the better, and hopefully it will be Michelin Latitude Tour HP.

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Post by discopotato03 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:38 am

When the result is everything most go looking in the Michelin range .

A .

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valerian
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Post by valerian » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:37 pm

discopotato03 wrote:When the result is everything most go looking in the Michelin range .
I heard the general opinion that Michelin tyres last long because they are made of hard rubber. On contrary, my Yokohama tyres lasted very short, but this was because they were made from a super-soft rubber -- and this showed its result in handling, which I appreciated most !

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Post by valerian » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:26 pm

My conclusion has been that the Highway-Terrain tires are no different from passenger tires on unsealed roads in terms of grip. (All-Terrain tyres might be better.)

Anyway, I found this appealing passenger tyre in my size made by Vogue, http://www.antiquetyres.com.au/node/694 . It has a white wall and a golden strip. Unfortunately, the dealer said they ceased bringing them to Australia as the demand was not there.

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Post by valerian » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:13 pm

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a 205/70R15 tyre with a speed rating no less than "V".

The problem is that all the available tyres are S, T or H rated. I want something with a stiffer sidewall and with softer tread rubber. Bob Jane offers Pirelly P4, but I think they might be too stiff (W speed rating).

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Post by Alex » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:22 pm

http://www.marangoni.com/conf/pro_sched ... 4&CCA_ID=0

i have the mythos tread on my liberty. Cant recommend them highly enough. A GREAT tyre.

205/65/ r15 is the only size with a V rating.

do some research into them.

alex
my07 Outback
my13 Hyundai i45(shhhh)
my02 Gen3 Liberty limited ed.

previously
L-series wagon, LSD, EJ20turbo, 29in tyres, 'wanky wagon'
2000 gen3 outback, lifted, otherwise stock.

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Post by valerian » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:44 pm

Thanks, Alex, for your feedback. Unfortunately, Marangoni does not have the tyre in my standard size. If I wanted a wider tyre, I would go for Yokohama C.drive, which has the correct upsize, 215/60/R15. And it is a V-speed rated, just what I wanted.

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Post by valerian » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Here is more update on the BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour tyres I have on my Outback. I just completed a trip on Oodnadatta trail and around. The tyres got some bruising and non-penetrating puncturing, but survived. So far, I have made 15k km on these tyres, about 95%/5% on-road/off-road. Recently I became happy with the tyres -- I finally got back that feeling that the car goes wherever I point the steering wheel without the car understeering and slipping. I think this is because 1/3 of the thread weared off, and those annoying sipes disappeared.* My next tyre would be with the solid shoulder lugs, without the sipes. (It is hard to find such modern highway-terrain tyres, as all of them seem to have the all-weather all-season-enhancing sipes. And I think I should not go for passenger car tyres, as they would be less puncture-resistant on rocky roads.)

--
* However, it is possible, that the tyre thread is made of several layers of different hardness; it is possible that the wear took away the hard layer, and exposed the soft layer -- hence is the improvement in handling.

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Post by valerian » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:14 pm

Bob Jane added Kumho tyres into its range. They have a Road Venture APT KL51 model. It's a "T" speed version, though (not a performance "H").

Below is the test where they were pitched against BF Goodrich Long Trail T/A Tour, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/tes ... p?ttid=127

BFG had a more precise steering than Kumho, however Kumho had less of understeering.

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Post by valerian » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Well, it looks like I have to get another set of tyres later in the year (I would get maybe 35k km out of the BFG Long Trail Tour instead of the US-guaranteed 100k km).

I am eyeing the more performance-like tyres such as Maxxis MA-S2 Marauder II or General Grabber UHP. They both have a unidirectional thread and are a bit softer than a touring tyre. I approached the companies' representatives in Australia and authorised dealers, and it came out that the former tyre in my size (205/70/R15) is not stocked in Australia, and the latter tyre is out of stock.

So that I am eyeing a next best thing, Maxxis MA-P1. The dealers have them in stock and sell for $140. It is not a directional tyre but it is touted by the manufacturer as a "performance" "touring" tyre. I am not quite sure whether it is performing well enough (I am concerned mostly about dry cornering grip). The other prospective tyre is Federal Couragia S/U ($147). It is a unidirectional tyre which is promising for performance. However, there are almost no reviews and a general opinion about Federal tyres is that they could be of an inferior quality (i.e., give vibration and is easy to puncture on sides). I wonder which one is better.

EDIT: All of the tyres mentioned above rated at an H speed.

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Touring Tyres for 6/2002 Compliance Forester

Post by sub-mum » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:24 am

Hi There
Have been reading your posts about tyres for Outback. Just wondering if the same principles would apply for my Forester? Definitely need touring tyres as I drive Fire Trails every couple of weeks, but the Geolanders I have on now really squeal a LOT! Have contacted Bridgestone and an independant tyre retailer after reading that Drive magazine recommended the Bridgestone Dueler HL D/683 for Foresters. The independant recommended Kumho's over the Bridgestone, so just wondering if anyone else has any further info please?
Thanks !

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Post by valerian » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:09 pm

sub-mum wrote:... the Geolanders I have on now really squeal a LOT!
If you want to get a less-squealing tyre, use the following principles:

1. The softer is the rubber, the less it will squeal. Get the "V"- or "H"-speed rated tyres instead of "S" or "T" ones.

2. Tyres with higher void ratio will squeal more. (You need more rubber touching the ground to have less squeal.) In other words, do not get an "All-Terrain" type of SUV tyre; get a "Highway-Terrain" type.

3. Also the tyres with smaller tread lugs and with lots of sipes would squeal more. In other words, do not get a Highway-Terrain SUV tyre; get a passenger tyre. If getting the passenger tyre, do not get an "all-season" one; get a "summer" one instead.

As an illustration, Geolandars are an H speed rated tyre. And Yokohamas are known for having a softer rubber. It has less sipes that a comparable SUV tyre. So, why does it still squeal ? Probably because the rubber is old and thus is hard.

The tyre Bridgestone Dueler HL D/683 line has mostly H-speed models, but it has S- and T-speed models in it as well. It could do the trick. As far as I know this is a competent but an unremarkable tyre.

Kumho tyres have reputation of the soft rubber tyres. They handle better, but they wear out quicker. Some people insist on having a tyre with at least 50-60k km tread life in it, otherwise it is a bad tyre for them. As for me, I'd prefer a tyre with a good grip and at least 30k km life in it.

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Post by sub-mum » Tue May 03, 2011 1:52 pm

Thanks very much Valerian - I am with you, rather have a tyre that grips a lot.
Cheers

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Post by valerian » Thu May 05, 2011 4:56 pm

submum -- hopefully you got the tyre you are happy with :-)

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Post by Gannon » Thu May 05, 2011 5:33 pm

I have just passed the 30,000km mark with my Bridgestone Turanza ER592's

They still grip good, except when there is heaps of water on the road, they tend to feel a little aquaplaney. But i put that down to the worn tread
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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valerian
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Post by valerian » Fri May 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Suparoo wrote:I my Bridgestone Turanza ER592's
Do you still feel the squishy soft sidewall ?

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Post by Gannon » Sat May 14, 2011 1:06 am

Nah i think that was only because i had what the tyre card said, ive added a couple more pound and it seems better (or i have gotten used to it)
Current rides: 2016 Mitsubishi Triton GLS & 2004 Forester X
Ongoing Project/Toy: 1987 RX Turbo EA82T, Speeduino ECU, Coil-pack ignition, 440cc Injectors, KONI adjustale front struts, Hybrid L Series/ Liberty AWD 5sp
Past rides: 92 L series turbo converted wagon, 83 Leone GL Sedan, 2004 Liberty GT Sedan & 2001 Outback
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