It finally happened - timing belt EA82

[Cliff R]

Left work yesterday in the L series and got out of the carpark and there was what sounded like a backfire.
Then nothing. No engine at all.
We all know what that means dont we
Of course no amount of trying got the car started so I rolled back off the road and this is where things got freaky.
I called my wife to come and get me but this would not be happening till she got the kids off the bus.
I then range our HR departing as I couldnt remember our security gates number to let them know my wife was coming. Without this info no one get in. Max security style.
HR said they would call security to let them know I was being picked up so I called NRMA roadside assistance.
Fearing the worse, I, of course, ended up on hold and, wait for it, immediately turned to my right while holding the phone and there was the NRMA vehicle stopping beside me asking if I needed any help
Now remember being in a fairly high security NSW Government Power Station site the last thing I would have expected was an NRMA vehicle stopping to help BEFORE I had actually placed a call. Very freaky.
Turns out it was our local NRMA rep who used to live up the road from me and he was on site due to an earlier call with someone who had locked themselves out of their car.
He let me use his phone to log the call (got through no problems), he organised the tow truck, we left the key with security and he took me home. Impressive to say the least.
Now I have taken tomorrow and Monday off to change the water pump, rebuild the oil pump and change the timing belts, tensioners and crankshaft seal. 4 days should do it even with me never having done the job before.
See how I go.

[Cliff R]

Following on from the L series and the busted timing belt issue yesterday, when I got dropped off by the NRMA so I could make my previously arranged appointment to get a pick slip for the MY I took the car for its 30th Rego check.
It failed
It wasnt due to the fairly ordinary rear tyre (I actually took 2 spare tyres with me to put on if needed), or the noisy front CV's, or the rust hole in the front guard. No it was due to the stop lights not working and apparently I need an auto electrician to fix this (yer right) and the fact with the engine running the key could be pulled out. This last one I personally found very useful but anyway.
With the stop lights I disconnected and reconnected the stop lamp switch connector and all came good.
I now need to get a hold of another MY ignition swith and key which cant be pulled out with the engine running.
Anyone got one they are willing to part with in a hurry ?

[purp]

How badly worn is the key? I had this problem, and passed Rego by getting a new key cut. The. Rs key has the same profile, but it thicker (because of how the key citing machine works) and the little bit of thickness (and the squareness of the edges compared to the worn one) was enough that the key wouldn't fall out of the ignition any more.

[steptoe]

Good locksmith did mine, new guts and two keys about $40 retail with lock dropped on the counter for them to fix. Quick postage is gonna be at least ten bucks - put it towards renewing is my suggestion from experience. Oh, a tip is that so many Nissan bits are similar to Subes, this is another one and they often used Nissan for more rugged guts, still fit and work. Take a door lock and see if they can build key barrel to match door if anything left of it. Or rekey whole shebang

The concern is that if key fell out, or you found convenient to remove while running, use to unlock something else with bunch of keys while engine was running, child or incompetant may get control and no one can switch engine off etc, etc

It was going to happen, but you did not order stuff from US weeks ago I bet

So much for the not much real assistance tag, or no real mechanics available

[steptoe]

TIPS GUYS !!

First one is before anything other than remove radiator, 22mm socket, long bar handle jammed in tow hook under battery, ignition fuse out, just lightly crank starter to WHACK undo the crank pulley bolt

Now, you may disconnect battery and start removing other stuff.

If you are lucky, all timing belt cover bolts will come undone without a hitch. When you refit, shove a little 5mm or 6mm o ring as a washer to prevent over tight of same for next time

Study the notes, find the three amigo belt install timing marks about quarter turn past TDC and ignition timing marks. Understand once first belt is on and tensioned that you must turn engine one revolution to same three marks and align next belt, turn again to check all marks keep lining up to within half a toof.

These three marks are where there is no valve spring tension fighting to turn engine a smidge against your dirty handed wishes at the time

Seals for camshaft and the blue o rings for cam seal holders too

[El_Freddo]

How badly worn is the key? I had this problem, and passed Rego by getting a new key cut. The. Rs key has the same profile, but it thicker (because of how the key citing machine works) and the little bit of thickness (and the squareness of the edges compared to the worn one) was enough that the key wouldn't fall out of the ignition any more.

Yeah this is the same with mine too - the original key I've got can be pulled out, which I too find handy at times, other keys I've had cut don't do it, they also need "a little jiggle" at times to be able to use the ignition barrel...

Cheers

Bennie

[Cliff R]

Thanks for the info and, a thought, crap, do I have a 22mm socket ? (leaving computer and going to the shed to check, back in a minute, - quick word to cat who is looking at me "cat stay away from this computer !!")
Back now - Bugger !! forgot to get a socket before leaving work yesterday. meant to do this in case I didnt have one at home. Have to make this my first point of order and get a hold of one. Unless I have a 7/8" that is a tight fit, its only 0.225mm bigger and there is a fair chance I will have one of these. I will check later.
I know the crankshaft bolt will be tight but are there any hints for tightening the thing back up ?
It will need to be retensioned obviously but how do you hold the engine still and not turn to do the bolt up ?
Has anyone had any luck with undoing the bolt using an electric impacter (not battery power, 240v)

[steptoe]

for a tight bolt would not risk an oversize socket, just asking to round the bolt head off with some slip - then yer stuffed.......

putting back a fw of us use shoulder tight ++ and some silicone on underside of big washer flat of bolt head

[Smokey]

Seals for camshaft and the blue o rings for cam seal holders too

Yeah good point Steptoe. The cam seal holders are a aluminium part that resides under the cam sprockets. 3 x 10mm bolts take the cam wheel off, another 3 x 10mm bolts will see the cam seal holder off. From the back of this part there is a hole you can use to push the old seal out through.

Im not sure where the blue seal/o ring goes as I did not replace mine. Though it would have been a good idea. I think the area it goes mine had some broken bits of a bakealite type plastic ring. I think that is supposed to seperate the cam seal holder to the actual cam box itself. Perhaps reduce oil pressure to the seal...dunno.

For the crank pulley, 22mm socket and breaker bar is how I have done it. Car in fith gear hand brake on. Doesn't feel good but seems to have worked and no apparent damage yet having done it this way a few times.

However there is a proper tool to lock the flywheel. Subaru Part #498277000 (M/T) or #498497000 ( A/T).

Pic of the manual one:

[steptoe]

Proper tool , yeah, try buy one . Someone must have jammed something in the teeth of one of mine, broke the timing pointer off

[Cliff R]

OK
Here is where I am up to with the belt changeover.
I took friday of last week and monday of this week to allow for 4 total days to do the belts, water pump and oil pump.
Early friday morning I took a phone call from my mother saying get my butt to Newcastle as my father is going into hospital, poor breathing, coughing, weak etc (about and 200km each way trip)
Obviously the L series is not the answer for transport so I dusted off the MY, took tools and cloths etc and looked at NRMA roadside assistance to give me some piece of mind but gave up.
I knew the MY was now only a town car but I had no choice, the wheels needed balancing, 4th gear was only achievable occasionally as I have not put the new gear stick bushing kit in and, basically, the car is 30 years old with 99% of its original coolant hosing still in place.
Anyway off I go and with the new F3 highway being build and a truck having rolled on one of the F3 interchanges I ended up on a rough dirt road out the back of Cessnock (sorry East Cessnock, apparently it is a bit more up market there) in a State Forest.
Sortening long store NOW - Took dad to Belmont Emergency at the Hospital, spent about 7 hours there but getting the best ever aged car I could ever have imagined (he is going to be 87 in August), took him home to Warners Bay and spent the night with dad and mum.
Got back to Muswelllbrook at about 11:30 this morning after more stuff ups with the F3, went to Denman for the markets and started work on the L series at about 4:30pm this arvo.
Current status - LH side broken timing belt out, and every ridge on the belt is cracked. it is totally stuffed.
Just for statistics, Previously changed at 246 thousand in 2006, now with about 312 thousand in 2013 and though oil has been leaking from the crankshaft seal it has not been getting on the belt. Still very stuffed.
RH (driver side) outer timing belt cover has 2 x bolt with spinning nuts due to the rear cover being cracked. Have not go this off yet.
Question - with the pipe going into the side of the water pump how is it sealed. is there an o-ring, how is it re sealed ?

[El_Freddo]

Question - with the pipe going into the side of the water pump how is it sealed. is there an o-ring, how is it re sealed ?

O-ring. To re-seal it you can do one of two things: a) re-use old O ring with some sealant on it or b) replace old O ring with a new one and some sealant.

I think I've replaced one of these O rings in my time so far. I've reused the majority of them.

Cheers

Bennie

[Cliff R]

Bennie
when you say sealant is there a type/brand/sort you would recommend ?

[El_Freddo]

Bennie
when you say sealant is there a type/brand/sort you would recommend ?

Any that can stand up to temperature changes and coolant. I usually use the red stuff - High temp sensor safe silicone, can't remember who makes it, but there are several brands out there that are probably the same stuff

Cheers

Bennie

[Cliff R]

Yep
I can see now on the existing water pump some red sealant around the pipe. Once I free up the 2 remaining bolts I will be able to get to the other water pump bolts and get the whole thing out. Wonder if it is the old STAG compound ?
A couple of things I would like to point out when doing this job.
1. undo the water pump coupling bolts BEFORE you take off the V belt off (makes it much easier later). I will tighten these last when the belt is back on.
2. to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt. I tried using an electric rattle gun and this MAY have loosened things up but this arvo on the way back home I picked up a tool that is listed as a 1/2" drive ratchet adaptor and states it "converts your breaker bar into a high torque ratchet" Not sure how it worked but it did and off the bolt came.
3. do not try to bring the A/C condensor UPwards. Remove the bonnet catch mechanism and support beam and drop the condensor DOWN. Uncovers the crankshaft pulley bolt nicely.
Lets see what else I come up with. I am only planning to get the RH timing belt cover off tonight as I am stuffed from the last 2 days and my apprentice is useless, he is chewing a ball and has paper towel all over the yard. (11 month old idiot dog)

[steptoe]

OK. Took me a few years before I ever needed to buy a new water pump pipe seal so you may get away with the add some sealant to old O ring trick. The last time for me I didn't get away- bloody leaked like an old woman, so bought two. Go genuine for no hassles, on Monday

Water pump coupling - ah yeah, has a 22mm square drive so a 22mm open ender can be of use too

[Bradenrm]

Seems like a relatively short km count for a timing belt, they're meant to do 100,000km? Just wondering, as I've discovered my engine is of the interference type. I think mine was done at 112 thousand, it's now 164. I'd rather not kill the engine, cos then I'll have to put in a half cut motor "while I'm in there" and then probably brakes, and then bigger wheels for bigger brakes and e.t.c.

[steptoe]

most aftermarket belts only come with a 40,000km warranty and some manufacturers recommend shorter intervals , revised/updated due to early failures since service schedule first devised, for best reliability. Also age factor, maintenance, brand of belt even !

[Cliff R]

OK. Took me a few years before I ever needed to buy a new water pump pipe seal so you may get away with the add some sealant to old O ring trick. The last time for me I didn't get away- bloody leaked like an old woman, so bought two. Go genuine for no hassles, on Monday

Water pump coupling - ah yeah, has a 22mm square drive so a 22mm open ender can be of use too

The coupling bolts I mean are the 4 on the water pump coupling that hold the pulley and the viscus fan on. They need a 10mm spanner and are a SOB to undo without some means of holding the pulley to stop the pump turning over.

P.S. I have had a closer look and the new water pump came with a new o-ring, gasket, and 4 new studs so I will be heading off to Auto 1 this morning after I pick our son up from a sleepover at a mates to have a look for some H/T sealant.

[steptoe]

that is a good water pump package - what brand ?